Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
astralprojection

Classic Goa Trance basses/leads/FX recreated in modern software

Recommended Posts

I think this is a topic many of us want, to see classic Alpha Juno and Juno-106 patches (AP - Dancing Galaxy) aswell as classic SH-101 patches (Simon, X-Dream +gazillion) or the famous JD-800 patches by Etnica/Pleiadians (Hmm Roland = Goa?) - recreated fully including sound signature and fx - inside your daw..

 

while id concede its impossible to 100% nail it, id accept anywhere from 51-90%  for the thread! most of us arent pro and that would be very acceptable and fun to chat about even if we cant nail it.. Just emulating the output stage of any of those synths for example should be a chore since youd really have to have one in order to re-create just the right filtering+noise+eq+compression+samplerate+phase etc etc....that the unit already has once you hear it... let alone the actual sound synthesis itself....

 

What would be interesting in this topic is to see patches including fx-chains that comes very close to a certain sound or a certain melody or a bass patch or whatever - made inside modern DAWs; based on whichever song/sound you want.. Im currently trying to emulate the dancing galaxy lead so that lead me to the thread...

So the PWM + LFO modulated Astral sounds of the Juno-106 or Alpha - for example, id love to see recreated in say Diva or any wavetable synth.. Aswell as the mixing to get it close to that dirty 90s sound..... Well okay thats the sound Im working on so not that one, but as an example. 

Get that old track you love, load up any daw and try to get close and post here. 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
recursion loop    507

Take a look at TAL synths, Tal Juno LX is a Juno 60 emulation, it's different synth than 106 but should be a good starting point. It's got a really squelchy filter. TAL-Bassline-101 is an obvious choice for 101. Tal-Mod doesn't emulate anything specific but it has that early VA/mid-90 vibe all over it, great for supersaw and FM leads.

 

Add some tape and/or console emulation and you are good to go.

 

As far as Diva goes, I have that old sketch that never evolved into a track, all Diva except drums. Sounds wannabe oldschool i think :)

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah youre right they CAN be made in many different software nowadays; which is why I made the topic :) Its still hard to re-create though. But yes since we do have the tools to do it, i guess your comment just validate my topic! :D

Thats some nice sounds in that track of yours!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    68

Interesting topic! :) challenge accepted, I'll give it a go on Synapse Audio Dune 3. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    68

I think the key to getting close to their sounds is to limit yourself, so I would recommend using the same type of stacking/modulation options they had available at the time. Which means to analyze for example how a lead like this would be made on a Juno-106 or SH-101 with their rather limited options (by todays standards). I believe that the Roland MKS-80 Super Jupiter with its MKS-80 programmer, was an integral part of their sound as well. Which was a bit more advanced than the Juno 106/60 & SH-101.

You are certainly on the right track with the PWM/LFO-modulation of the leads. That was a signature element of them for sure. For those crying type of leads, the portamento of said synthesizers played a crucial role as well. Try putting the portamento at around 13/14. Depending a bit on the scaling/range of the synthesizer you use, that might vary quite considerably, so listen until it sounds perfect. I know for a fact that Astral Projection used a specific phaser effect as well on their leads. Which you can hear clearly on the track "Feelings" from their Trust In Trance album. One thing I'm unsure of is if they used the "secret" unison mode and the rather noisy onboard chorus on the Juno-106 or if they opted for some external effect, like a chorus or multi-effect on the Eventide or Lexicon for example.

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2008/02/28/roland-juno-106-synth-unison-mode/

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Imba    320

Just use older VST, don't do processing, have it dirty and screaming and there you go :D

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/20/2020 at 3:30 PM, Imba said:

Just use older VST, don't do processing, have it dirty and screaming and there you go :D

Not quite though. I was thinking a bit more specific than that. I'll post the dancing galaxy lead once I'm happy with what I've got. It's kinda hard to recreate and if its so easy then prove it :p

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    68

I've corrected my above post somewhat, as I was a bit mistaken regarding the Supersaws, turns out the JP-8000 was released in 1996, I confused it's release date with the JP-8080 rack version which I had, which was released in 1998. And also in 1995 the first Nord Lead was released, which had unison and the possibility to stack parts. A feature I first though was introduced with the Nord Lead 2, but by looking at images of the front panel of the NL1, I'm now sure it also had unison.

I would love to see some studio photos from the AP studio from that era, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had the Nord Lead1/Nord Rack 1 and the Roland JP-8000. And in 1997 the first Access Virus model was released, it didn't feature the now famous Hypersaw that the later TI models added, but I'm sure it must've sported a unison just like the Nord Lead for some fat supersaw like detuned leads. So since these type sounds which are rather specific for the virtual analog era of synthesizers was available in 1997, it opens up a lot of possibilities for what was used to make the leads on that album, and thus the options for recreating the AP leads. 

To the thread starter, do you have Sylenth1?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Multi-Media    15

@recursion loop

Sounds like you are pretty close to the Astral Projection feel with your example, thumbs up. Dont you have the project anymore so can make a song from the sketch?

At topic: A friend many years ago had a JP8080 this was really a fat one, so I am curious to hear what you guys can reproduce, I also think it is not so easy as Mr. Imba says. But he can prove it. 


I have a VST (free) named Superwave which is said to be some Roland emulation but I forgot which one LOL I have a Nordrack2 safely stored away, but no good mixing desk anymore and only 1 old SE50 Effect unit. When my current tracks are hopefully finished only used software, I will setup my 2 HW synths again I guess, it is just more fun with them... and Nord has some unique sounds. 
Well I could also accept the challenge with the limited means (and time) I have, it would be not lost one can use it in a track.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    68

removed links they sucked :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    68
On 6/20/2020 at 3:30 PM, Imba said:

Just use older VST, don't do processing, have it dirty and screaming and there you go :D

The most important thing is to use windows xp or windows vista, since it adds some extra crisp lol :lol: ;)

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    68

removed links they sucked :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Multi-Media    15
17 minutes ago, AstralSphinx said:

The most important thing is to use windows xp or windows vista, since it adds some extra crisp lol :lol: ;)

I actually USE XP (only for music of course) my old Logic (Emagic not Apple!) does not run on newer OS..

Why not widen this challenge to complete tracks ?? Need not to be 7-8 min. but lets say 4-5 min at least...
.. as I see and hear we have 5 capable people in this thread, 5 songs make an EP which we release and kick oldschool goa ass;)
Needs a deadline then otherwise it will go nowhere, and it is summer some of us might want to go out in the sun actually.

So a loose deadline I guess :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
recursion loop    507
1 hour ago, Multi-Media said:

Sounds like you are pretty close to the Astral Projection feel with your example, thumbs up. Dont you have the project anymore so can make a song from the sketch?

Thanks, yes I think I still have the project. Maybe I'll make a track of it but not now, I deviated from that style somewhat.

 

I have another complete track in a kinda similar style if you are interested

I think that synth you are talikng about was Superwave p8, it was supposed to emulate Roland JP 8000. It's old and not especially good, it was made with Synthedit afaik. Diva's JP8000 oscillator must be much better, also there is Adam Szabo's JP6k. Adam Szabo is a guy who did a PhD thesis on the  supersaw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Multi-Media    15
12 minutes ago, recursion loop said:

Thanks, yes I think I still have the project. Maybe I'll make a track of it but not now, I deviated from that style somewhat.I think that synth you are talikng about was Superwave p8, it was supposed to emulate Roland JP 8000. It's old and not especially good, it was made with Synthedit afaik. Diva's JP8000 oscillator must be much better, also there is Adam Szabo's JP6k. Adam Szabo is a guy who did a PhD thesis on the  supersaw.

Well it is not my style too, but it would be fun to prove we can do it (read my idea above) I totally are with you that one wants to use the limited time for his own vision of sound... but maybe we can scrape up some of it. My "style" is usually darker with industrial/darkambient tones I would say. Started some kind of "doom-industrial" track even with a guitar (oops yes I do not like guitar in psy but dig it, in other metal gothrock punk styles).. listen tomorrow your other piece, good evening gents. 
Superwave P8 is ok for free I think not near the real thing just like synth1..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    68

removed links they sucked :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    68
23 minutes ago, Multi-Media said:

I actually USE XP (only for music of course) my old Logic (Emagic not Apple!) does not run on newer OS..

Why not widen this challenge to complete tracks ?? Need not to be 7-8 min. but lets say 4-5 min at least...
.. as I see and hear we have 5 capable people in this thread, 5 songs make an EP which we release and kick oldschool goa ass;)
Needs a deadline then otherwise it will go nowhere, and it is summer some of us might want to go out in the sun actually.

So a loose deadline I guess :)

 

Heh cool, I started out on emagic logic on pc, that is it was my first real DAW experience, after rebirth and reason if my memory serves me correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    68
30 minutes ago, recursion loop said:

also there is Adam Szabo's JP6k. Adam Szabo is a guy who did a PhD thesis on the  supersaw.

Yes he is the JP-8000 expert hehe :D the Supersaw is a religion almost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Multi-Media    15
12 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:

 

Heh cool, I started out on emagic logic on pc, that is it was my first real DAW experience, after rebirth and reason if my memory serves me correctly.

I "started" on Magix Musicmaker and a friend was making "blackmetal" with a playstation composer :) Then Logic 3.6 or so the first I tried with real musicmaking, there was no vst with this. Now the last Win version = 5.51. Tried back in the days, Fruity and Cubase, but straight back to Logic. Then was not making any music for ca. 6/7 years but kept all the music stuff incl. my Logic...Downloaded a week ago Reaper, which can be and tried out for free for a while, and was so confused even looking at it that I de-installed it after 30mins trying to get something with it haha.... did not want to really use it anyway but was curious how it looks/feels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    68

I don't really see the point in using such an old and largely obsolete daw as the old emagic logic, unless there would be some old track one was aiming to recover I guess.

Todays daws are just light-years ahead of what was possible in the old emagic logic. I mean you can't even use new plugins so I don't really follow :P One thing I can understand more, is people using old hardware like C64 and Amiga, because those had specific soundchips and stuff, if one is into chiptunes etc.

But hey whatever floats your boat I guess :D I would've purchased an older mac which could atleast run logic pro 9 or logic pro x instead of messing with old emagic logic. This daw has been improved of in every single way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Multi-Media    15

I do not want Apple...yes, Logic Pro is much improved I guess, but remember electronic music in the 80ties was still mostly made without any LogicPro or Protools whatever and much of it still sounds cool (or even is considered kult). Logic works and I know how to use it.

 For video game sounds, funny that you say this, cause last week I got a neat little free plug in named "invader". And yes, this connects to "Space Invader" (an old video game).

There are more than enough older plug ins one can get - and using old stuff and not looking much at all what is out there new gear, new vst´s etc. also helps not get lost in all the new options (and get lost of rare money) one now has. In a music producer forum, there are often people asking for new plug ins cause they cannot get some sound or mixing solution they miss.. however if in the 80ties and 90ties people found solutions and made cool music already :) Bill / Cosmosis once quoted Georgio Moroder (I believe), who said basically "production is reduction"..gonna find his video.. See here:

 



Sad no one likes my idea above making complete tracks :( We could name after the forum as a theme and some promo to get more new posters here, seems kind of empty now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:

removed links they sucked :P

i had a listen before you removed and i think your main lead was very close to the astral juno sound =) 

definitely in the ballpark!

 

yup ap did not have any supersaw synths afaik (virus, jp8000) maybe they had the nord lead 1, but im not sure. what i do know is they made most of their leads using the alpha juno with the MKS-50 programmer aswell as the juno-106. Which is pretty much the same as the alpha except its easily programmable wheras the alpha was either a very annoying menu diver; or with an external programmer such as the MKS. And it can 100% be recreated using Diva or pretty much any synth that has PWM and have the ability to modulate the pulse width using LFO. ( i tried using spire, an excellent wavetable synth that has this capability; and it can most definitely be made in spire aswell. its not easy though. :) im almost there... )

 

what would be really cool to see is someone recreating the sounds of the JD-800. That one is a beast with 4 sources, each source having VA (+additive and perhaps fm) and Sample capabilites. so the closest thing in software would be Alchemy, since it also has 4 sources and actually does More than the jd-800 could.

If theres one guy here who can bless us and already has blessed us its Filteria, but then again he actually has the hardware.. so thats cheating :P at least for this thread..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Multi-Media    15

Watch the video above, I saw a Nord (1 or 2?), 2 x something from Walddorf (1x Microwave), a 303, some "rompler" it looks like from Roland (JD/JV something?) and an EMU Morpheus ah and 2 x Oberheim something. Guess you guys can identify more...

The JD800 was very good especially for pads iirc. I believe there is a rack version (990). In theory one needs only 2 good samplers.. like F242 they had the Emulators mostly. And Depeche also...they were used a lot in their tracks, more samplers than synths. Well for more moving sound like Goa, of course a real synth with many knobs is desired.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    68
11 hours ago, astralprojection said:

 

If theres one guy here who can bless us and already has blessed us its Filteria, but then again he actually has the hardware.. so thats cheating :P at least for this thread..

Indeed, ask him ;) he is/was a member here :) I remember atleast that he was a veeery long time ago.

I'm gonna play around some more with recreating some AP sounds tonight, this time I will listen to the actual album at the same time, way easier to get the detune right that way. By playing along to the album.

What sounds besides the leads interest you the most? Point me to some track/album/sound :) The FX as you've allready touched upon was an integral part of their signature sound. The ping pong delay from the Alesis Quadraverb was very popular among the goa trance producers of the golden era, and if my memory serves me right I think Filteria used that one as well. This unit was/is very affordable, and gives a very good spatial 3D sound to the synthesizer sounds run through it when combined with a hall reverb. As can be heard here with Hallucinogen:

 

And here with I Savastano on the TB-303 + SH-101 or the Juno-106. 

The Alesis Quadraverbs ping pong delays can be reproduced easily on all kinds of delay plugins, particularly on Native Instruments Replika and Replika XT.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...