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Let's talk about "Lies"


Starkraver
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Just curious as to how everyone perceives this tricky thing.

 

 

Do you lie?

If so, how often?

 

For your good? For others?

 

I find myself lying to avoid certain conversations or certain company when I'm not in a mood or just want to be alone. Sometimes they create problems, sometimes they don't.

 

I tried to be "satya harish chandra" but come on. That ain't happening.

 

About satyaharishchandra - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harishchandra

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everyone does.

as little as possible.

 

as far as i know (my own perception might be skewed?) i do it most of the time to make a point in a conversation (a point that is actually valid), when the reality is too complicated for me to make that point in an amount of time that does not completely put off anyone i'm talking to.

also to avoid unneccesary conflict. just recently i was talking to a few collegues about politics and you just cannot tell those people whom you hardly know that all those "centre" politicians they prefer are almost like fascists for you.

 

generally i'd much rather say something that's true but maybe a little bit beside the point rather than telling a lie. lies require that you remember fake facts/stories and the context in which you told them to what people. with my horrible memory i couln't keep that going for long, even if i wanted to put effort into that sort of thing ;)

 

 

so avoidance of lies is seem as an even more imporant virtue in india? "satyameva jayate"?

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Oh wow! You surprise me every time we have a conversation.

Referencing phrase from Mukunda Upanishad! What next? Knowing all the scriptures by heart? :D

 

Oh yes, "Truth alone Triumphs" is our national motto.

But an important virtue? Hmm, that's a topic which people need to contemplate on.

 

"too much of effort ". The hassles of remembering fake instances, cooked up stories is not worth it at all, especially when one has a shitty memory. You seriously wanted to put efforts? :P I doubt that.

 

I used to have eidetic memory a long time ago, I miss that old me.

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Oh yes, "Truth alone Triumphs" is our national motto.

 

and indeed i got it from the section on the right of the wikipedia page about india. not from the mukunda upanishad ;)

 

well, some people tell lots of lies (there are those people who'll tell any made up story to impress others — though i've met fewer of them in recent years) and if they don't put a much greater amount of effort into remembering what they told different people, they'll be called out on their bullshit very quickly.

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An interesting topic that made me think..

 

I can't recall that I had ever lied online (psynews, facebook). No need for that. Ppl with whom I associate online are those with whom I am comfortable with so no need for making up stories.

 

I am a liar of irl. Mostly my relatives. My old dad would not understand what his daughter is up to, e.g. psychedelic music scene. So I am lying a bit in necessary circumstances just to save him from worries. Also: I have lied to my boss at work a few times about why not coming to work: telling that I am sick even tho I had a hangover. That just has to be balanced: a few times is maximum and one has to be a good worker even more bc of the lies for not to arouse suspicions.

 

Generally: sometimes a "white" lie is better than truth to save ppl from unnecessary worries. Mainly I value truth very high.

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Everybody lies.

I lie to my patient's attenders sometimes to avoid their annoying questions.

Sometimes I would've forgotten to do something and so I lie about it being done a while ago (usually something trivial)

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I mostly lie to myself, unfortunately.

 

Had I actually done half of the things I promise myself to take care of, I'd be much happier, healthier and probably wealthier as well. But I'm lazy :P

Oh dear Antic! You just closed the topic. :D

It hurts to be lazy.

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Everybody lies.

I lie to my patient's attenders sometimes to avoid their annoying questions.

Sometimes I would've forgotten to do something and so I lie about it being done a while ago (usually something trivial)

Everybody lies.

I lie to my patient's attenders sometimes to avoid their annoying questions.

Sometimes I would've forgotten to do something and so I lie about it being done a while ago (usually something trivial)

A doctor. So if you are havin time for psytrance and psynews I believe you are of my age and not an uncle yet ;) Kaha se ho tum? Why do I feel you are from Mumbai. Btw, there are 2 more Hindustani here. The great 'exotic' with his eloquent reviews and keen sense of insight into Indian politics and 'kartoonz' who is rarely online.

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It hurts to be lazy.

what's wrong about lazyness? being lazy is one of my best qualities ;)

 

no, really. being lazy makes you do things more efficiently, it gets you to think about new solutions that take less effort to all kinds of problems. it also forces you to get a deeper understanding of things; you can save a lot of work that way.

imho lazyness — besides curiosity — is the main motor for progress.

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what's wrong about lazyness? being lazy is one of my best qualities ;)

 

no, really. being lazy makes you do things more efficiently, it gets you to think about new solutions that take less effort to all kinds of problems. it also forces you to get a deeper understanding of things; you can save a lot of work that way.

imho lazyness — besides curiosity — is the main motor for progress.

There's a flip side as well ;) you just mentioned the good part.

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There's a flip side as well ;) you just mentioned the good part.

 

Well, it depends how you perceive laziness - for example in my work I always got top performance scores, good salary + bonuses, am regarded as a highly qualified expert and were quickly promoted to top management positions. But, I KNOW I could do even more. Is that laziness, or just optimisation of effort vs. what I expect from life? I could sacrifice my personal time - lots of which is allocated to family of course - and likely get even higher with more money, etc. but I already feel comfortable: my family has all we need materially and the free time that's left is spent together. Obviously - like with work - I feel I could be an even better father or husband, but I also need to carve out some time to listen to music, enjoy some hobbies or ...write posts like this. I'd probably lost my sanity if all I did was work, spend time with wife & play with kids. I need to have some time for me.

 

In the end it's good to feel lazy, if others don't actually think of you as being lazy :)

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what's wrong about lazyness? being lazy is one of my best qualities ;)

 

no, really. being lazy makes you do things more efficiently, it gets you to think about new solutions that take less effort to all kinds of problems. it also forces you to get a deeper understanding of things; you can save a lot of work that way.

imho lazyness — besides curiosity — is the main motor for progress.

 

Well, it depends how you perceive laziness

Maybe, it could be pointed out as thoughtfulness, prudence, soberness etc ...  Gunas  Upadana

 

 

It is a well-pointed remark that there is a dilemma, a priority difficulty between Truth of facts and Truth of obligation or altruism.

Surrounding conditions, an appraisal and a weighing of what is valuable.

 

Mostly, fear is behind lie. But sometimes, pettiness or worthlessness.

 

 

February 1974

Anderson: Mr Krishnamurti, if I recall correctly I think we had begun to talk together last time, just at the point where the question of fear arose, and I think we both, perhaps, could explore that together a little.

Krishnamurti: Yes, I think so. I wonder how we can approach this problem, because it is a common problem in the world. Everyone, or I can say, almost everyone is frightened of something. It may be the fear of death, fear of loneliness, fear of not being loved, fear of not becoming famous, successful and also fear of not having physical security, and the fear of not having psychological security. There are so many multiple forms of fears. Now to go into this problem really very deeply, can the mind, which includes the brain, really fundamentally be free of fear? Because fear, as I have observed, is a dreadful thing.

A: Oh yes.

K: It darkens the world, it destroys everything. And I don't think we can discuss fear, which is one of the principles in life, without also discussing, or going into the pursuit of pleasure. The two sides of the same coin.

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Maybe, it could be pointed out as thoughtfulness, prudence, soberness etc ...  Gunas  Upadana

 

It is a well-pointed remark that there is a dilemma, a priority difficulty between Truth of facts and Truth of obligation or altruism.

Surrounding conditions, an appraisal and a weighing of what is valuable.

 

Mostly, fear is behind lie. But sometimes, pettiness or worthlessness.

 

Now THAT'S how you close the topic, @Stark ;):D

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The way I see it, truth and falsehood are just two sides of the same coin. Both can either hurt or help your situation, while the coin remains the same. You are free to choose either one. You might as well be truthful in all cases. Personally, I consider truth to be that which you observe and the expression of that observation which is accepted by the vast majority of people.

 

So let's do a thought experiment.

 

If there are 100 people in a room and all but one person agrees on some fact, regardless of whether the "fact" has been observed, even if that one naysayer truly does know the observable and proven truth, that which the 99 other people agreed upon is the truth. Further to this, it holds that we can all agree on at least 1 thing such as mortality, and so truth must exist.

 

The key is to take actions in life based on truth, however it manifests itself because to do otherwise would be to halt forward movement. Whether we live or die as a species is not up to any one individual.

 

Of course, nothing I say should be considered truth to anyone but myself unless you feel like agreeing, because you are free to choose either one.

 

For an education on this I highly recommend reading Umineko No Naku Koro Ni, a mystery, meta fictional, horror visual novel written by Ryukishi07.

 

nAxr9M6.png

 

https://youtu.be/0SAnMRYM4fk?t=16m48s

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