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MrAnarchy

Why psytrance doesnt attract a bigger audience?

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Imba    313

Huh, I really did answer my own question without noticing. Genius :lol:

I think your right that it kinda is a good thing that it isnt popular. Im gonna sound cheap, which I am since I dont have the money to invest in music atm, but if psy-trance was popular, I guess we wouldnt get free content from artists at Ektoplazm or Bandcamp for an example. For which I am extremely grateful of course!

 

Someone told me back in beggining that there are no money from releases but from gigs. And it was true. I released 50 tracks got payed for couple of them only, 50 track ~ 300-350 euro. Same money you get for single gig if you are 'mid-known' goa producer.

 

Even on some huge and well known labels in progressive/psy scene you dont get a cent. In Goa scene people still prefer to buy cds and Goa cds are better sold than psy/prog as i heard. In their scene digital EPs got more promotion than CD releases.

 

My friends lately released some albums on top labels and i asked them how much they got as is top label and music. They said none and i was like wtf. But we got 10 gigs fixed by label in few days and each per 1k euro. And thats deal going around scene these days. Label doesnt have to pay you but you earn 10x more. Better for both sides imo.

 

Releases are promotional, money is in gigs unless you are legendary name now and you can have whatever you want.

 

 

Ektoplazm is extremely great for promotion, sometimes more people hear for you on Ektoplazm than releasing CDs, promo CDs, Beatport etc...

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Redo    35

It's because psytrance songs are soooo long...I've been listening to psytrance for years and sometimes even I get annoyed at how much filler there is

in a lot of songs.

I played a song I really liked for my friend and he listened to the first minute and got bored obviously, since the good part starts at 3 minutes...or towards

the end of the song.

It's simple...people have short attention spans, and they want instant melodies or groove to grab them from the first second.

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XoArK    54

It's because psytrance songs are soooo long...I've been listening to psytrance for years and sometimes even I get annoyed at how much filler there is

in a lot of songs.

I played a song I really liked for my friend and he listened to the first minute and got bored obviously, since the good part starts at 3 minutes...or towards

the end of the song.

It's simple...people have short attention spans, and they want instant melodies or groove to grab them from the first second.

Exactly. If psytrance became too commercial, the fullon bassline would be too prominent and that one strange psychedelic acid line would be hated.

(None of the stuff I said made sense at all)

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MrAnarchy    221

 

But what is big for you now? Number of the attenders or number of attenders that actually understand, follow and support such music instead of just getting wasted and stomp? For me it's second ones.

"Getting wasted and stomp" I had something similar to say in one of the discussion threads about the evolution of psytrance and how I think that the type drugs being consumed at the parties did its part in it. Maybe you wouldnt agree with this theory since you yourself didnt take any party drugs as you said, but you must have noticed at your sets. Would the repetitive techno (which is also horrible in clubs these days) be popular if we didnt have such HUUUGE amounts of amphetamines consumed there? When you take such a drug all you want to do is jump up and down, throw punches at the air, stomp the ground... hard bass in techno, minimal and deep house provides good environment for that. Also you get annoyed by acid lines and melodies in goa. Im talking from personal expirience. Same goes for the popular ecstasy which are both opposite from LSD and shrooms.

 

I asume that people mostly indulged in psychedelics when going to psytrance parties in the 90's so= More melodies, weaker bass, acid, synths, layers, the more the merrier.

Then party drugs got into the scene and now we have psytrance that is: Minimal, HARD ASS BASE and manditory triplets, 95% cases no melodes, no acid, no layers, the less the merrier.

 

I think the videos you linked is proof of this. Those people are high and they dont give a fuck about music as art but just to jump and pump. Honestly I have done both. When I wasnt so big on goa I remember going to goa parties, taking ecstasy or amphetamines after which I would end up in some techno party because goa isnt "hard" enough. I have also done acid at goa parties, and I remember hugging the speakers and just getting lost in all the acid and melodies.

Now I usually go sober because I actually want to remember the evening.

Not saying that it all revolves around drugs, but they did their part IMO

 

Just part of my theory on this topic

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psylophyta    15
Being a listener, and not an artist, I have a very broad-spectrum exposure to music, and I am learning to appreciate many genres. In my opinion, they all have 'something,' even the most popular ones, such as mainstream trance, house, techno, even RnB, although I do dislike mainstream pop.

Now, coming from a Buddhist perspective of compassion, there may be nothing wrong in big crowds of people having a hell of a time. I can share in their joy.

Drugs do seem to be an issue, though.


My vision of an ideal DJ is that of someone tuned into the crowd, and being able take them on a journey of emotions, taking into account their state at the moment.

In a normal day-to-day existence I can see how house music is more harmonious with the environment, while definitely lifting up the people's vibes.

I blast psytrance in my phones at home, while working or resting, and then I go with my friend in a car and it's almost weird how the same music sounds different and doesn't seem to match the vibe.

Perhaps, a good party will be with all these different varieties of music, slowly building up to the psychedelic experience during the night or daytime. It would be great if people were actually taking some positive medicine, such as LSD or cannabis (the latter, IMO, is very conducive to enjoying good psytrance).

After all, this is a culture that is based on unusual, psychedelic experiences.


I do hope, however, that psytrance will be more widespread in the future. Maybe those artists that Imba has posted (God, they ARE hillarious) are just the beginning. We see them as small video clips, but who knows what was actually going on at the party prior to that, leading to this energy? I've seen multiple occasions that look stupid on video, while in reality they were OK.

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psylophyta    15
Actually, I would like to add an even deeper psychological perspective.

Most people are busy in the world working hard. Anything that they do in between, unless they are completely desperate, should, ideally, increase their productivity, such as being full of energy, feeling good, and thinking clearly. Other concerns also frequently include social and sexual efficiency.


Now psytrance, by its association with the hippy/traveler lifestyle, may be perceived as something that potentially threatens someone's well-being, because only 'dirty hippes,' homeless & unemployed, are listening to it (that's one possible view, another one is that they are a bunch of well-off jerks); or the very word "psychedelic" already throws one off.


So, if psytrance were promoted as something to increase one's productivity and, perhaps, especially, creativity, that would be a definite plus in the eyes of the mainstream listener. I know this to be true (and not just a possible marketing gimmick), for I love working to psytrance (my work is computer-based).

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Cynos    20

It's because its "unusual" nature for mainstream crowds. I mean, it's not "the same thing over and over" that they can easily digest, more complex and less monotonous than what they can stand and it's not even promoted by mainstream media, which is an important factor to make them like it (yes, they'll easily consume what media give them). Also, they aren't able/educated to appreciate music (and other forms of art) in general.

 

And it's good that psytrance is not mainstream, at least until now.

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psylophyta    15

it's not even promoted by mainstream media, which is an important factor to make them like it

Good point. Yes, the people are brainwashed and they are afraid. If you could show them that there is a part in their souls that can relate to this music and enjoy it, that will be the solution. That is why, perhaps, it all is linked to the promotion of healthy (no, it's not a typo) psychedelic use and spirituality.

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Cynos    20

Few days ago i saw this 'psytrance' getting big:

https://www.facebook.com/kobiblastoyz/videos/10154190539464771/

 

 

First of all its not psytrance at all, and psy wasnt made for MTV but underground scene. Brazil, Mexico and Israel found way to (destroy) spread it and make it big and commercial. All you need to do is make kick-bass and nothing for 8 mins.

 

 

Here one more example of guys who start making 'music' few years ago:

https://www.facebook.com/UpgradeSound/videos/1132299970148162/

 

 

First/business class flights, private jets, 5 star hotels, selfies, autographs, bombing crowd with your CDs, spending time on your 'outfit' more than on music, 5-10k euros for pressing space button and looking stupid on stage?

 

 

 

Makes me sick :wacko:

 

Holy fuck, I really cringed and felt disgusted while listening to those clowns' obnoxious, lame "psy"-"trance" attempts.

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recursion loop    465

Some further ideas. I've read somewhere that people may be generally cathegorised as conservative minds and explratory minds with the proportion of roughly 85 to 15, which mostly shows itself through their aesthetic choices. I've read this as an explanation of why most people dislike modern architecture (for the record, I'm a huge lover of modernism, deconstructivism and high tech)but I guess this may be applicable to any kind of art including music - 85% of people choose something that looks or sounds familiar over something that looks or sounds strange at the first contact, which in turn attracts the other 15%. Nice theory which almost answers the OP question except for one thing: why does such a big part of psytrance community only accept goa which sounds like it was made 20 years ago and disregards everything else?

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Paul Eye    451

why does such a big part of psytrance community only accept goa which sounds like it was made 20 years ago and disregards everything else?

Or why is goa acceptable on bigger festivals usually only if it's oldschool and/or played by veterans?

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MrAnarchy    221

Some further ideas. I've read somewhere that people may be generally cathegorised as conservative minds and explratory minds with the proportion of roughly 85 to 15, which mostly shows itself through their aesthetic choices. I've read this as an explanation of why most people dislike modern architecture (for the record, I'm a huge lover of modernism, deconstructivism and high tech)but I guess this may be applicable to any kind of art including music - 85% of people choose something that looks or sounds familiar over something that looks or sounds strange at the first contact, which in turn attracts the other 15%. Nice theory which almost answers the OP question except for one thing: why does such a big part of psytrance community only accept goa which sounds like it was made 20 years ago and disregards everything else?

Goa sounds more modern than todays electronic music. Also I think its actually the minority of psytrance community people who stick only to goa. In that sense i go as far as X-dream -Radio, after that its mostly shit. You cant use the "You cant adapt to the new sound so you dont like it" argument against me since I was 2 years old when the transition happened. I started listening to a whole diffrent kinds of psytrance albums 1 year ago all at once. From Astrals -Trust in Trance to Braincell. My opinionated answer would be: Because I think most of psy-trance (im speaking as if goa and psytrance are separate) is shit. Thats the true reason.

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Starkraver    869

Goa sounds more modern than today electronic music - can you explain this.? Also what is modern according to you.?

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GoaPal    25

i think it also has to do with the fact that when u dance to psy music u have to get in it and sometime even have to make difficult choice about the layer u want to follow and actually dance on. most others music don t give the opportunity to do that. u just start the track and ppl follows it. they follow, they don t really get INTO IT. even if we find psy melodic and nicely balance it s sadly mostly an addition of sound layer for most of other non psy listenners

 

my 2 cents

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MrAnarchy    221

Goa sounds more modern than today electronic music - can you explain this.? Also what is modern according to you.?

It is just a feeling. Not something I can put into words. But let me try. I listen to lets say some popular deep house track released in 2016, and then some goa track released in 1996, and it just feels like as if the goa track is the more modern one. From a technical level it sounds more advanced to me.

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exotic    43

It's because its "unusual" nature for mainstream crowds. I mean, it's not "the same thing over and over" that they can easily digest, more complex and less monotonous than what they can stand and it's not even promoted by mainstream media, which is an important factor to make them like it (yes, they'll easily consume what media give them). Also, they aren't able/educated to appreciate music (and other forms of art) in general.

 

And it's good that psytrance is not mainstream, at least until now.

And i thought its psytrance's same thing over and over that the masses cant stand because they cant tell the subtleties and the slight nuances in the music . When i attended my first rave , on my way back from the party i kept saying to the driver , i want lyrics , i want words , everything sounds the same . Little did i realize then it was going to be my initiation into appreciating what goes on in between the "everything sounds the same " parts. :P

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thanosp81    298

It is just a feeling. Not something I can put into words. But let me try. I listen to lets say some popular deep house track released in 2016, and then some goa track released in 1996, and it just feels like as if the goa track is the more modern one. From a technical level it sounds more advanced to me.

The you should try early techno. Production values are top notch compared to the rest of the electronic genres.

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Starkraver    869

I have come across some pretty nice deep house in 2015/16 eventhough I don't follow the genre. Not sure what you listening to :P

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Starkraver    869

What technicality are you talking about?

 

@Goa is the best. :P

May be because you have recently discovered Goa you feel all other genres are crap. Goa can do that to you. But it's not the case. Psytrance is as awesome as ever. Ask Rotwang if you don't believe me. Forest is great too, Acid house is as lovely and acidic as it was back in 82'. Try echospace and soma, pretty awesome Techno!

And man, coming to downtempo/psybient and ambient territory. Think again, this is a vaaast sea of awesomeness.

 

The most modern sounding cutting edge stuff I've heard is not even pure Goa :|

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XoArK    54

It is just a feeling. Not something I can put into words. But let me try. I listen to lets say some popular deep house track released in 2016, and then some goa track released in 1996, and it just feels like as if the goa track is the more modern one. From a technical level it sounds more advanced to me.

Because goa/psytrance is more technically advanced that most other electronic genres.

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Because goa/psytrance is more technically advanced that most other electronic genres.

 

I really love goa.

Like, a lot, a lot.

 

But that statement is just really silly

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MrAnarchy    221

What technicality are you talking about?

 

@Goa is the best. :P

May be because you have recently discovered Goa you feel all other genres are crap. Goa can do that to you. But it's not the case. Psytrance is as awesome as ever. Ask Rotwang if you don't believe me. Forest is great too, Acid house is as lovely and acidic as it was back in 82'. Try echospace and soma, pretty awesome Techno!

And man, coming to downtempo/psybient and ambient territory. Think again, this is a vaaast sea of awesomeness.

 

The most modern sounding cutting edge stuff I've heard is not even pure Goa :|

As I said, Its a feeling of mine, not a fully formed argument. There must be a reason why I zeroed in on goa trance since I started listening to the whole spectrum of psytrance subgenres at the same time. I never said "Im going to listen only to goa trance from now on."

The only 2 times I enjoyed psytrance was when I listened X-Dream live and hearing The Delta - Scizoeffective . X-Dream first played their more melodic stuff or goa tracks in their set, and then they just shifted to Radio tracks. The first one was Psychomachine and it blew my mind. Its the first time I understood the album.

I simply cant sit at my pc, put on a psytrance album and listen to it whole as I can with goa, thus I dont appreciate it as much.

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recursion loop    465

Because goa/psytrance is more technically advanced that most other electronic genres.

People tend to think so because in psy you hear lots of layers, various unusual sounds which makes you think that it is very complicated to make, but actually making a typical EDM track is also technically very complex task - the arrangement usually seems simple but there is a lot going on under the hood to make it sound as fat, big and banging as required by today's standards.

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psylophyta    15

In my opinion, in our post-post-modern times, the most modern music is the one you're listening to right now. :)

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