Ormion Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I dont really understand why you all care so much about them. +1 Do metal fans care about all the satanic stuff? It's part of their scene. I personally don't give a flying fuck about shiva and ganesha, but they're trademarks of our scene. You're not supposed to take it seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkraver Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I have encountered annoying hippies in festival myself, but everytime I start talking about the music I realized they have no fucking idea about it. Hell! I have been in this situation too... he he he.. Agreed I dont have much idea myself. But I know its AP when I hear Mahadeva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 +1 Do metal fans care about all the satanic stuff? It's part of their scene. I personally don't give a flying fuck about shiva and ganesha, but they're trademarks of our scene. You're not supposed to take it seriously. i think perhaps satanists MIGHT take it seroiously, and also hindus and buddhists MIGHT take the psytrance "trademarks" seriously too. religion can be touchy for some people and we should respect that. i wouldnt advertise hinduism - for example - if thats not my religion. i know that now. as a youngster i had shiva on a backdrop and was proud of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin OOOD Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 If cultural appropriation is wrong, than Japanese men wearing suits is wrong. After all, the suit is part of European culture.Incorrect IMO. The suit is part of business culture, which is pan-national and as much a part of Japanese culture as it is European. Listening to classical music by non-Europeans would also be wrong if this nonsense of cultural appropriation were something.Not at all, IMO. Music is intended to be listened to and enjoyed by all who are able to do so. I cannot imagine any composer or listener being upset because someone of a different culture enjoyed listening to music written in their country. The very idea that you are restricted in the type of sounds, foods, clothing, manners, language, and art because of the culture you came from is absurd.The idea that you should respect those from whom you take without asking is not quite so absurd, to me. Let's get rid of this ridiculousness, and not worry about sharing culture.Sharing starts with something being freely offered for the use of another. The kind of cultural appropriation the article talks about, and which has been discussed elsewhere starts with something being taken, not given. These cultures aren't being 'shared'; their trappings are being used whilst their actual cultural meaning is being ignored, dismissed and discarded. The 'sharing' of the actual culture around eg. bindis would involve Western women wearing them in the same situations as women from the culture in which the bindi originated. That isn't happening; the bindi has been appropriated by Western culture and its original cultural significance dismissed as unimportant, and the disrespectful nature of its use in the eyes of those for whom it is still a living part of their culture deemed irrelevant. Imagine the furore if fashionable clothing shops started selling military campaign ribbons and medals as fashion accessories. Cultural appropriation such as this is an indicator of a lack of fundamental respect towards the basic humanity and cultural sensibilities of those whose culture is being reduced to a commodity ripe for exploitation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exotic Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 Cultural appropriation is nonsense. Human beings are free to explore and use any aspect of any human culture. We are, after all, a social animal. If cultural appropriation is wrong, than Japanese men wearing suits is wrong. After all, the suit is part of European culture. Listening to classical music by non-Europeans would also be wrong if this nonsense of cultural appropriation were something. The very idea that you are restricted in the type of sounds, foods, clothing, manners, language, and art because of the culture you came from is absurd. Let's get rid of this ridiculousness, and not worry about sharing culture. Well cant disagree with what you said but the feeling i got from the what the author was saying that most western people wearing bindis would not know the significance of it which is a sort of desecration of the motif. And what he says about playing dijridoos and bongos at parties coupled with the use of OM and shiva and buddha being nothing but a nod to eastern culture by the westerners for all the oppression / subjugation of the colonial era might not necessarily be objectively true but isnt something that you could out-rightly deny or claim as rubbish either . Its an interesting point of view if one were to consider colonialism and its effects from a cultural anthropological standpoint where the oppressors had to recognize the significance of the local customs and traditions of the oppressed in a post colonial era as a sort of reparation for the injustice meted out. It might not be something those who appropriate are consciously aware but this payback is happening more at subliminal subconscious karmic level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkraver Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Subliminal subconscious karmic level -- lol dude if that was the case Brits would be giving us all that wealth. fuck the wealth. The sculptures, the painting and whatnot which they have in their museums. All they can do is agree and award Shashi Tharoor but for what. No one gives a rat ass about what their forefathers have done. No one cares about how their country is what it is. And at whose expense. Edit -- ok, we are talking about hippies? Fine maybe the twisted fucks might have felt guilty about the acts of their earlier generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Edit -- ok, we are talking about hippies? Fine maybe the twisted fucks might have felt guilty about the acts of their earlier generations. i think there is some truth in that. subcounscious truth maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAnarchy Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Religion can be touchy for some people and we should respect that.For an example of such touchy people: In highschool I had a roomate who is a touchy religious person and once I was reading "The Satanic Bible" by Anton Szandor LaVey. Even though the book doesnt have anything to do with worshipping the devil, he got offended. Even IF the book did talk about the theological satanism, why should he get offended by a book I was reading?! Take into the account i never openly disrepsected his religion. Same bad logic goes for this cultural appropriation and I dont respect that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 For an example of such touchy people: In highschool I had a roomate who is a touchy religious person and once I was reading "The Satanic Bible" by Anton Szandor LaVey. Even though the book doesnt have anything to do with worshipping the devil, he got offended. Even IF the book did talk about the theological satanism, why should he get offended by a book I was reading?! Take into the account i never openly disrepsected his religion. Same bad logic goes for this cultural appropriation and I dont respect that at all. i dont think thats a bad logic from that person at all. its fully understandable to me. it seems to me you are an incredibly intolerant and disrespectful person if you feel that way. but i respect that, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goa Travellers Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 well i dont know - but about the religion - i asked my wife who is taiwanese and buddhist i asked her what she thinks about music and tracknames like buddha xxxxx and covers with buddha and in her opinion it is a bit inappropriate and disrespectful LOL...It's as if some community - not christians - came up with a new type of music and subculture, with t-shirts and CD covers featuring the Pope, Jesus, and the Virgin Mary. Not everybody would appreciate 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkraver Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 LOL...It's as if some community - not christians - came up with a new type of music and subculture, with t-shirts and CD covers featuring the Pope, Jesus, and the Virgin Mary. Not everybody would appreciate I have not seen anyone do that. I wonder why?? Cough cough** because you(not you) tried to wipe out the cultural minorities and force them with "Christianity" because it is "inherently" superior. --------------------- I guess all that history reading is getting to me! :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 LOL...It's as if some community - not christians - came up with a new type of music and subculture, with t-shirts and CD covers featuring the Pope, Jesus, and the Virgin Mary. Not everybody would appreciate thank you. that said it perfectly I have not seen anyone do that. I wonder why?? Cough cough** because you(not you) tried to wipe out the cultural minorities and force them with "Christianity" because it is "inherently" superior. --------------------- I guess all that history reading is getting to me! :/ he was sarcastic. but i can see where you are coming from. its truly understandable you feel strongly about it, i would too, and i completely respect that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAnarchy Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 i dont think thats a bad logic from that person at all. its fully understandable to me. it seems to me you are an incredibly intolerant and disrespectful person if you feel that way. but i respect that, too. Wait what?! First of all, I dont have hatred or intolerance towards anyone on the basis of religion, ethnicity or fascism in general. Second, HE (my roommate)is the intolerant one just as much as he was ignorant. He got angry because of a book I was reading and the book ended up not being about the satanism he thought it was? Excuse me man?! Explain how was I the intolerant one. When I said "I dont respect that logic" I meannt that I dont respect that people get unprovokingly offended and then bash on onto the source! And the people who do that are the intolerant ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Wait what?! First of all, I dont have hatred or intolerance towards anyone on the basis of religion, ethnicity or fascism in general. Second, HE (my roommate)is the intolerant one just as much as he was ignorant. He got angry because of a book I was reading and the book ended up not being about the satanism he thought it was? Excuse me man?! Explain how was I the intolerant one. When I said "I dont respect that logic" I meannt that I dont respect that people get unprovokingly offended and then bash on onto the source! And the people who do that are the intolerant ones! to you it was unprovoked. to him it was not. and you flat out refused to respect that, you said so. so in my book, that makes you disrespectful. but i also respect that, so i wont call you out on it - except now when we are discussing the very subject. i just wanted you to learn that just because you might consider something unprovoked doesnt necessarily mean other people feel the same way. that is why you should respect other peoples opinion and feelings toward a subject matter - especially one as fragile as Religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recursion loop Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 For an example of such touchy people: In highschool I had a roomate who is a touchy religious person and once I was reading "The Satanic Bible" by Anton Szandor LaVey. Even though the book doesnt have anything to do with worshipping the devil, he got offended. Even IF the book did talk about the theological satanism, why should he get offended by a book I was reading?! Take into the account i never openly disrepsected his religion. Same bad logic goes for this cultural appropriation and I dont respect that at all. Sorry for the OT, it reminds me a story from my highschool days. In our class there was a dude who was an Jehova's witness. He didn't smoke, unlike everybode else around these days, and he used to say that his religion considers smoking to be a serious sin. But he usually had a lighter in his pocket, no idea why. Once I've asked his lighter to fire my cigarette but he refused to give it to me, explaining that it would make him participating in my sin which is just as bad as if he sinned himself, accoridng to his belief. I was wery angry because of nicotine starvation, but finally we agreed on that he gives his lighter to another dude who was standing nearby, and this another dude gives it to me. Well, you get the idea. He didn't participate in the sin. He made another chap participate in my sin. Clever guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAnarchy Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Of course I'm disrespectful towards a person who disrespects me in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Of course I'm disrespectful towards a person who disrespects me in the first place. from what i read, he didnt disrespect you - he disrespected you for reading about satanism? and you frowned upon him doing so. which is your right. but you didnt respect him for that was a mistake on your end, imo. edit: if you dont agree with me there is no reason to take it to heart or be upset with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasalom Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Sharing starts with something being freely offered for the use of another. The kind of cultural appropriation the article talks about, and which has been discussed elsewhere starts with something being taken, not given. These cultures aren't being 'shared'; their trappings are being used whilst their actual cultural meaning is being ignored, dismissed and discarded. So, essentially, you're against poseurs who, for example, wear a bindi without understanding the significance of it... but wearing one while understanding the significance is fine. So it's not cultural appropriation, it's simply being a shallow poseur that is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAnarchy Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 from what i read, he didnt disrespect you - he disrespected you for reading about satanism? and you frowned upon him doing so. which is your right. but you didnt respect him for doing so which was a mistake on your end, imo. Its like saying to a guy who is about to kill you "Hey you are disrespecting my right to live, but its ok I respect that." Practically its the same just this example is more...severe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 So, essentially, you're against poseurs who, for example, wear a bindi without understanding the significance of it... but wearing one while understanding the significance is fine. So it's not cultural appropriation, it's simply being a shallow poseur that is the problem. yeah. Its like saying to a guy who is about to kill you "Hey you are disrespecting my right to live, but its ok I respect that." Practically its the same just this example is more...severe. please re-think what you just wrote (i mean, you dont consider someone about to murder you the same as someone critizising you reading about satanism, do you? Its about respecting eachothers opinion. Not about respecting eachothers right to murder one another.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAnarchy Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 yeah. please re-think what you just wrote Its what you are asking me to understand! You think that I should respect the fact that he got offended by my choice of literature and started bashing me. Sorry but I love myself enough not to agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Its what you are asking me to understand! You think that I should respect the fact that he got offended by my choice of literature and started bashing me. Sorry but I love myself enough not to agree with you. Yes. I think you should respect him for that opinion. And i dont think you should be angry with him. That doesnt in any way - infringe on your rights. For example. I read alot of David Icke. People judge that alot. But i dont get upset. Cause I understand it. That doesnt make me enjoy him any less, and doesnt impede me reading him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin OOOD Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 So, essentially, you're against poseurs who, for example, wear a bindi without understanding the significance of it... but wearing one while understanding the significance is fine. So it's not cultural appropriation, it's simply being a shallow poseur that is the problem. Properly understanding the significance will mean understanding how it will make someone of that culture feel when they see a bindi (or feathered head-dress etc) worn or used in a manner inappropriate or even directly contrary to its purpose in the culture from which it comes. If you understand that by reducing something of great cultural significance to a mere fashion item you will upset people of that culture, but you do it nonetheless, you're being pretty arrogant and insensitive IMO. Posers are an entirely separate problem! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasalom Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 For example. I read alot of David Icke. People judge that alot. But those are lizard people, so just ignore them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 But those are lizard people, so just ignore them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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