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recursion loop

What exactly is "progressive psytrance"

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recursion loop    495

Curious, what does "progressive psy" mean. I've basically heard two different definitions of this term

 

1. Anything 4 on the floor below 140 bpm (typically around 134-137), with "groovy" basslines (as opposed to "running" full-on bassline). May be mellow or harsh, euphoric or dark, melodic or relying solely on grooves and effects

 

2. A kind of psy which incorporates lots of "normal trance" and/or deep house elements, aerial and euphoric or at least not very dark, usually more or less melodic and, generally speaking, accessible to non-psy people, the bpm doesnt matter.

 

Which one seems to be more correct?

 

In other words, this is undoubtedly "progressive psy", isn't it?

 

 

 

And what about this?

 

 

 

The last two examples are, at least, faster than 140 (142-145 I think), and have a "full-onish" kind of bassline, but are distinctively melodious and not very harsh or twisted.

 

Also, are "progressive psytrance" and "psyprog" the same thing, or there are some further subtleties here?

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Novoice    15

Yes, the first track (Sideform: High Priest) is pure Proggi to me.

 

My definition: slower, dominant drums and bass, more technically, therefore closer to Techno or Minimal. But: Cleaner, much cleaner. Melody can be found, also the "nice" ones, but not that dreamy, so closer to the reality.

Ah, its getting sophistic now, so I stop! Haha... Generally: the Speed and Beat/Bass-dominance.

 

I think both descriptions are basically ok. Depends on other characteristics in the music as well... In my case: Voice-samples. Are they psy in its content or just cheesy ("The beat goes on in 10, 9... )?

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Ormion    425

It's psytrance with normal trance, techno, electro or house elements. Therefore it's usually slower, minimal, less psychedelic and more club friendly than most psytrance genres.

However many artists combine prog with full on so sometimes it sounds faster and with a rolling bass.

As for the name psyprog is short for progressive psytrance.

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recursion loop    495

Thanks for the explanations!

 

So, the second defition is more appropriate - "psyprog" is not exactly related to bpm or the type of the bassline, but rather reflects the use of some elements of club-friendly dance music and reduced "psychedelity".

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Ormion    425

Thanks for the explanations!

 

So, the second defition is more appropriate - "psyprog" is not exactly related to bpm or the type of the bassline, but rather reflects the use of some elements of club-friendly dance music and reduced "psychedelity".

That's how I see it. There are 145 bpm prog tracks and 135 bpm full on tracks for example.

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recursion loop    495

But the music like Intersys, Eletcro Sun, Perplex etc (145 bpm trance with corny vocals and happy melodies), is not "psyprog" but rather belongs to full-on, right? (though I'm not sure if it belongs to psytrance at all).

 

Sorry for being so anal about the terms, I'm trying to wrap my head aroung all these subgenres - there are tons of new releases, I need to know how and where I could potentially find the music I may like.

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Starkraver    877

Here is a nice playlist made by our own Ormion titled Introduction to Psytrance :

 

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF6FEA169E0E5EED6

 

And if you scroll down a bit in the General Paytrance section, you'll find Psytrance in its entirety thread which has a pdf - All thanks to the efforts of LightForce and guys.

 

Hope this helps :)

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Padmapani    416

i'd rather say that it's psytrance with a different structure. it's focused more on rhytm and groove and changes "one element at the time" (you know... the track "progresses" slowly instead of going from climax to climax like in fullon). that gives it a psyprog (=progressive psytrance) track and slow and coherent impression instead of being more unpredictable with quick changes like the other subgenres of psy. once you're in the groove it just keeps going instead of transitioning to something completely different by two buildups and one break that only lasts one measure.

 

whilte it's true that a lot of progressive is slower, uses different bassline patterns, is more minimal and often has influences from house/techno/trance/.... none of these are imo defining features. it's all in the structure (but one could argue that the structure is borrowed from techno…).

 

so from the examples above the former three are progressive while the last one is fullon.

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recursion loop    495

i'd rather say that it's psytrance with a different structure. it's focused more on rhytm and groove and changes "one element at the time" (you know... the track "progresses" slowly instead of going from climax to climax like in fullon). that gives it a psyprog (=progressive psytrance) track and slow and coherent impression instead of being more unpredictable with quick changes like the other subgenres of psy. once you're in the groove it just keeps going instead of transitioning to something completely different by two buildups and one break that only lasts one measure.

 

whilte it's true that a lot of progressive is slower, uses different bassline patterns, is more minimal and often has influences from house/techno/trance/.... none of these are imo defining features. it's all in the structure (but one could argue that the structure is borrowed from techno…).

 

so from the examples above the former three are progressive while the last one is fullon.

Interesting... Things are even more complicated now :) It seems that people are categorizing music according to the elements which are most important for them personally (song structure, degree of psychedelity - does such a word exist? - etc). I for one love melodies and lush spacey sound (like Digicult, Protoculture etc), and I used to divide all psytrance into "melodic psy" and "night/dark psy", untill I learned that "night psy" and "dark psy" are not the same thing and darkpsy is not exactly dark.

 

Actually, the question first arose when I saw one of my own tracks, which I had categorized as "full-on", tagged somewhere as "progressive". This track is full-on according to me (145 bpm, rolling bassline) and accoridng to Padmapani (goes from climax to climax instead of slowly progressing), and progressive accoridng to Ormion (has lots of normal trance elements, a cheesy melody, supersaws etc).

 

Well, probably with the exception of the genre-defining acts or paint-by-number music, all these tags and subgenres don't make much sence. :)

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recursion loop    495

Here is a nice playlist made by our own Ormion titled Introduction to Psytrance :

 

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF6FEA169E0E5EED6

 

And if you scroll down a bit in the General Paytrance section, you'll find Psytrance in its entirety thread which has a pdf - All thanks to the efforts of LightForce and guys.

 

Hope this helps :)

Thank you! I already saw this "psytrance in its entirety" thread - it helped me to understand what is psycore, what is darkpsy and what is forest psy (I don't like ether of them but at least now I know that they all are different :) ) and it also has lots of cool graphics ;) I will investigate this thread further.

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Lightforce    59

Thank you! I already saw this "psytrance in its entirety" thread - it helped me to understand what is psycore, what is darkpsy and what is forest psy (I don't like ether of them but at least now I know that they all are different :) ) and it also has lots of cool graphics ;) I will investigate this thread further.

Don't hesitate to come and ask questions on "The Psychedelic Trance, in its entirety" thread. I'll answer with pleasure if I have the necessary knowledge ;)

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Padmapani    416

I for one love melodies and lush spacey sound (like Digicult, Protoculture etc), and I used to divide all psytrance into "melodic psy" and "night/dark psy", untill I learned that "night psy" and "dark psy" are not the same thing and darkpsy is not exactly dark.

so do i, but i'll put melodic/lush/spacey progressive like e-clip, human blue and the like into a "good progressive" category rather than drawing a genre boundary because of that ;)

 

 

in the end the borders between subgenres are constructed artificially anyway. when you know psy music well, you simply develop a feeling for what's fullon/progressive/forest/... and can immediately recognise it in a matter of seconds and >90% of the other psyheads will agree with you (making the distinction useful). it's just when you try to make a general, objective definition that fits in all cases that people will come up with totally different opinions or when you try to categorise music that's combining the elements of different subgenres that you'll get vastly different assessments from people...

 

 

 

Not exactly, this is Progressive Goa Trance ^_^

simply goa trance imho. and not even the kind of goa trance that would later evolve into progressive. it's only the miranda remix that i'd call progressive.

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Lightforce    59

simply goa trance imho. there was no progressive back then in 1997 ;)

 

When I spoke about "Progressive Goa Trance" I simply meant a blend of "Goa Trance" and "Progressive Trance" ;)

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Dolmot    173

The entry for "progressive" in Ishkur's guide to rave culture only said "Regressive." I still trust that. :lol:

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ollylovesgoa    22

These days:

Anything where the cover features a photograph of the artist's face, including (but not limited to) the addition of sunglasses and lightly clad women.

 

More than 7/8 years ago:

Psytrance which has typically been slowed down slightly and stripped of much of its "trippy" fx, leaving a psychedelic but subtle atmosphere.

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Penfold    3

Check out my thread for some examples ;)

https://www.psynews.org/forums/topic/70986-psychic-bison-progressive-psy-trance-mixes/

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So many psy trance snobs in this thread, in fact any thread about prog, embarrassing.

My genre's better better than yours, ner ner nee ner ner...

Grow the fuck up.
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just as long as everyone is clear that Prog-trance, and prog-psytrance are two VERY different genres... thats the most important thing.

 

progressive psy is the first option you gave us.

Ticon, Son Kite, Vibrasphere, etc (no, im not being bias cus there all swedes, cant help we invented it) their early shiet gave birth to it when goa died in 2002.

And of course I had massive hatred because everytime I went to parties it was like going from parties full with Talamasca, Astral, Chiad, and countless others - from one night to the other hearing shiet like early Spirallianz, Ticon and Son Kite.

 

I was like WTF on the dancefloor and waited for melodies that never came. They never came!

 

So, thanks Jannis (yet another Swede, what a coincidence) for also realising this and being first on the horn to say STFU to all that noise and bringing Goa back.

Thanks bro.

 

edit: i like the prodigy MFTJG album cover from the guy above. my first album, or at least the first 5; bought as an early teen. Had that shit made on a A3 (ca double letter for you americans) sheet of paper and had it on my wall for like 9 years. Props

 

edit2: just want to add that I adore Vibrasphere, one of my alltime favorite artists, I even love their most "boring" tracks sometimes, but still cant help mentioning the fact that they "helped" in creating progressive psy. Just happens that they did it with style, class, talent, quality and extreme intelligence.

 

I dont think most people realise how good their album Lime Structure actually is, as it can seem very "boring" the first listen or two and came out in 2003 - where every goa fan automatically hated on everything that wasnt goa :) including myself :) didnt appreciate Lime Structure until perhaps 2009 or so.

Kinda the same corundum (dunno how to spell it sry) as people hating on AP - Amen when it came out - even though it is actually their best, most cleanly produced and mastered, most intelligent and wise melodies (ALOT of hidden notes in their melodies that your mind automatically fills in - its magic - try out Infinite Justice for example while youre on a melancholic or euophoric mood) and just top production overall - and definately their best album by a mile.

I realise many AP fans will absolutely and wholehartedly disagree with that - but I believe the cause for that is simply you havent given it a chance.

Trust me i was just like you , skipped thru the tracks and almost cried [WTF HAPPENED TO ASTRAL PROJECTION] but i decided to open my mind, put myself in their shoes, in their mindset, and i just got it. It just clicked. And Amen for me is probably in my top 5 albums ever made, which is a really really good achievement since I am a massive music fan all genres (almost)

peace out.

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