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psytones    83
3 hours ago, Psychedelic Superbeast said:

 

Should i post tracks (...) with good Forest? 

Yes plz.

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Manuser    252

@Lightforce

In my opinion, you should leave out every albums that are somehow hybrids of several genres. Don't forget your guide is aimed at beginners.

That's why you should not include KOB - Identity Mash in the forest genre, the tracks you posted (especially Cousin It) have forest influences, but this album is not 100% forest. For me it's barely 20% or 30% forest at best. 

It is better if you include only albums that are a perfect representation of the genre:
Derango - Tumult 
Dohm - From the dark poetry
Shivattva - The tales of Harvia

The same way I would not, for example, include Oforia if I want to define what pure Goa trance is, because his style was more robotic than Dimension 5 or Etnica. 

This way your PDF (and future website) will be more accessible to beginners.

Great work!

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Lightforce    51
On 3/8/2019 at 4:54 AM, Manuser said:

@Lightforce

In my opinion, you should leave out every albums that are somehow hybrids of several genres. Don't forget your guide is aimed at beginners.

That's why you should not include KOB - Identity Mash in the forest genre, the tracks you posted (especially Cousin It) have forest influences, but this album is not 100% forest. For me it's barely 20% or 30% forest at best. 

It is better if you include only albums that are a perfect representation of the genre:
Derango - Tumult 
Dohm - From the dark poetry
Shivattva - The tales of Harvia

The same way I would not, for example, include Oforia if I want to define what pure Goa trance is, because his style was more robotic than Dimension 5 or Etnica. 

This way your PDF (and future website) will be more accessible to beginners.

Great work!

I will answer you in French (as you are French) to be sure to express myself correctly and put the English version aside so that others can understand.

Je pense qu'au contraire il faut inclure les albums un peu borderline et pas seulement les typiques et purs du genre car du coup ça permet de se faire une idée plus ou moins approximative des délimitations du genre. Donc je préfère laisser KOB et d'autre en plus dans les albums supplémentaires. De plus Identity Mash est Forest à 100%. Cet album de KOB est un album principalement Forest Goa ce qui explique que certains puissent être déstabilisés car ils ne sont pas habitués à entendre ce type de son en version Forest. Et sinon oui, Oforia n'est pas pure Old School Goa mais la transition avec la Old School Psytrance peut être incluse dans la catégorie Goa. C'est un parti pris, on peut ne pas être d'accord mais je pense que ça ne pose pas de problème de cohérence.

Justement, je pense que tout ça permettra aux débutants de se former l'oreille comme il faut et ça ne les enfermera pas dans un son typique qui fera qu'ils seront déstabilisés et ne sauront pas comment interpréter les raretés dès qu'elles sortiront un peu des sentiers battus.

Et merci pour ton soutient ;) :+1:

(Ah et je répondrais pas à Psychedelic Superbeast sur ses dernières interventions car ça sent soit le provocateur, soit le gars qui a rien compris et qui a pas pris le temps de lire le pdf, à plein nez. D'ailleurs Ormion lui a pas répondu après ses "ouai mais la Forest scandinave c'est de la merde parce que c'est moche donc en s'en fou". Pour moi un mec qui ramène un truc comme ça dans un échange sérieux sur un topic où on essaie de faire des choses utiles pour beaucoup de monde se disqualifie de factio de toute réponses de ma part tant qu'il tient ce genre de discours.)

English version :

I think that on the contrary it's necessary to include the albums a little borderline and not only the typical and pure of the kind because suddenly it makes it possible to get an approximate idea of the delimitations of the genre. So I prefer to leave KOB and others in additional albums. Plus Identity Mash is Forest at 100%. This album of KOB is an album mainly Forest Goa which explains that some can be destabilized because they are not accustomed to hear this type of sound in Forest version. And also, Oforia is not pure Old Goa School but the transition with the Old School Psytrance can be included in the Goa category. It's a bias, we may not agree, but I think it doesn't pose a problem of consistency.

Precisely, I think that all of this will allow the beginners to train their ear as it's necessary and it will not enclose them in a typical sound which will destabilize them as soon as they will not know how to interpret the rarities as soon as they leave a little off the beaten track.

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Manuser    252

Je comprends parfaitement ta logique ;) et pas de souci, je comprends tres bien quand tu ecris en Anglais :P 

To be honest, Forest from the few I know, is a bit annoying to define, I saw what Ormion wrote, and I also noticed you included Ka-Sol - Fairytale in the forest section, while indeed this album is really hybrid, some tracks in this album are actually pure Psy or Goa-Trance, if you listen to Matrix (remix) or The Light, they are totally different to Forest. But since Ka-Sol is a pioneer of Forest.... but the genre today is really different. So this is confusing. This category is annoying and could almost be separated between Old Forest and New Forest...
You said KOB - Identity Mash is Forest Goa, that's why for me it's only Forest influenced, unless we open the borders of the genre. Forest as we know it today is far from Goa. ... I love that album anyway.  Good luck and keep it up! 

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forest is atmospheric and mystical music with a nice groove. you can dance to it but also you can have a deep and magical meditation to it. thats my definition of forest.

A sort of fairytale Darkpsy.

13 hours ago, psytones said:

Yes plz.

early Forest...maybe more Darkpsy/Psychedelic trance

to compare with

thats industrial Goa.

 

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Lightforce    51

@Ormion

Finally I made some more changes to the Forest definition, tell me what you think about this :

“Forest” is a Psychedelic Trance style mainly born from Dark Psytrance, however this one can sometimes get rid of high BPMs and black ambiances from Darkpsy. The Schlabbaduerst Rekkords label is considered as the pioneer of this style. 

Technically, the Forest is characterized by a more pronounced resonance as well as more organic sonorities than in Darkpsy (in order to accentuate the “deep forest” effect) and “swarming/teeming” effects reminding ambient noises of fauna and flora. Just as Dark, chants are very rare, they are more willingly replaced by ambient noises. 

There is two main trends of Forest: the first one, born in the late 90’s and linked to Schlabbaduerst Rekkords, mainly consists in a blend of Goa and Psytrance or Darkpsy with often heavy Industrial Music influences and a more chaotic or experimental aesthetic while the second one, born in 2003, stemmed almost exclusively from Darkpsy. Note that the first one is uncommon contrary to the second one. 

This style has mainly emerged in Denmark and in a minority in other nordic countries such as Finland, Norway or Sweden. 

Its ambiance can greatly vary from artist to another one, some turning toward dark ambiences (majority), others will prefer exalting and joyful ambiences (minority). 

Another form of Forest named “Swamp” also exists, born from the merger of this latter and Downtempo. It is characterized by a more experimental side than “traditional” Forest and a slower tempo, similar to Downtempo. Like Natural Trance, this form of Forest remains rarely produced. 

Representative labels: Parvati / Forestdelic / Sanaton / Chronicle Of Mystery

 

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psytones    83

Yggdrasil Records? And what about Discovalley Records?

I remember getting this compilation CD.. https://www.discogs.com/Various-Acid-Mutants/release/242400

Fungus Funk track Geona..It was my first encounter with DarkPsy, PsycOre, Forest.. Call it what Psytrance genre you will or wanted. 

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6 hours ago, Lightforce said:

@Ormion

Finally I made some more changes to the Forest definition, tell me what you think about this :

“Forest” is a Psychedelic Trance style mainly born from Dark Psytrance, however this one can sometimes get rid of high BPMs and black ambiances from Darkpsy. The Schlabbaduerst Rekkords label is considered as the pioneer of this style. 

Technically, the Forest is characterized by a more pronounced resonance as well as more organic sonorities than in Darkpsy (in order to accentuate the “deep forest” effect) and “swarming/teeming” effects reminding ambient noises of fauna and flora. Just as Dark, chants are very rare, they are more willingly replaced by ambient noises. 

There is two main trends of Forest: the first one, born in the late 90’s and linked to Schlabbaduerst Rekkords, mainly consists in a blend of Goa and Psytrance or Darkpsy with often heavy Industrial Music influences and a more chaotic or experimental aesthetic while the second one, born in 2003, stemmed almost  exclusively from Darkpsy. Note that the first one is uncommon contrary to the second one. 

This style has mainly emerged in Denmark and in a minority in other nordic countries such as Finland, Norway or Sweden. 

Its ambiance can greatly vary from artist to another one, some turning toward dark ambiences (majority), others will prefer exalting and joyful ambiences (minority). 

Another form of Forest named “Swamp” also exists, born from the merger of this latter and Downtempo. It is characterized by a more experimental side than “traditional” Forest and a slower tempo, similar to Downtempo. Like Natural Trance, this form of Forest remains rarely produced. 

Representative labels: Parvati / Forestdelic / Sanaton / Chronicle Of Mystery

 

do you know glowing flame records? if not check out the compilations if yu have the time...i have uploaded themall on youtube. Very ineresting mixture of psytrance and forest elements....Forestdelic rec is by the same people like glowing flame rec. The Trold album is quite interesting too. Maybe you can include one of glowing flame releases in your project too. Would be amazing! Love the effort and work this macedonian guys did back in the 2000s

Tracks like this one are priceless...and i think that there will never be music like this again :/

 

 

 

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Lightforce    51
On 3/8/2019 at 10:43 PM, Psychedelic Superbeast said:

do you know glowing flame records? if not check out the compilations if yu have the time...i have uploaded themall on youtube. Very ineresting mixture of psytrance and forest elements....Forestdelic rec is by the same people like glowing flame rec. The Trold album is quite interesting too. Maybe you can include one of glowing flame releases in your project too. Would be amazing! Love the effort and work this macedonian guys did back in the 2000s

I included unRevealed by Yudhisthira in the four examples of Forest for the next update.

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Lightforce    51

Update of the PDF, you can download the new version.

 

Here is the list of changes that have been made:

 

- Forest definition and albums update

- Some albums replacements in Dark Psytrance, Psy Tech and Goa Trance sections and pages of the "Bonus" section

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Oopie    152

That definition of forest psytrance sounds somewhat wrong - to say the birth of the first wave of forest trance is directly linked to Schlabba is cutting the corners. It's a lazy approach if you want me to put it bluntly. That's because the 'early forest sound' existed many years before y2k. Of course, if we wanna discuss the Schlabba thing a bit and give credit where it's due, it can be mentioned Ka-Sol and BOTFB were and still are active in forest parties and the very evolution of the sound. However, how both producers sounded in the very beginning of their careers, is just very close to classic goa in my books.  

Only Schlabbaduerst, afaik, was ever doing 'industrial forest sound' I'm not sure if that itself is enough to talk about this little niche as the other 'major trend'. 

 

I guess what we can argue about is the very aesthetic what forest is.... but if you allow me to express my opinion, then I'd say I see it as music with weird soundscapes and quirky melodies - something that started, in larger numbers, to exist around 97-98-ish and some fine examples of it are   

Katayama - Hyperwhirler / Tripfield 0-Logic (1998)

Hux Flux - Motor / STP Something (1998)

Little Blue Men - Jedi Smurf - Blah Blah Machine (1997)

VA - Tales From The Forest (!) (1998)

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Lightforce    51
3 hours ago, Oopie said:

That definition of forest psytrance sounds somewhat wrong - to say the birth of the first wave of forest trance is directly linked to Schlabba is cutting the corners. It's a lazy approach if you want me to put it bluntly. That's because the 'early forest sound' existed many years before y2k. Of course, if we wanna discuss the Schlabba thing a bit and give credit where it's due, it can be mentioned Ka-Sol and BOTFB were and still are active in forest parties and the very evolution of the sound. However, how both producers sounded in the very beginning of their careers, is just very close to classic goa in my books.  

Only Schlabbaduerst, afaik, was ever doing 'industrial forest sound' I'm not sure if that itself is enough to talk about this little niche as the other 'major trend'. 

You're right, I wanted to be synthetic but you're right it needs some more shades about Schlabbaduerst and Forest origins. However, Schlabbaduerst is not the only one that produced industrial influenced Forest, check Chronicle Of Mystery Records. Indeed "main" seems a bit clumsy. What about that ?

There is two main distinguishable trends of Forest: the first one, born in the late 90’s and then linked to Schlabbaduerst Rekkords in the early 2000s, mainly consists in a blend of Goa and Psytrance or Darkpsy with often heavy Industrial Music influences and a more chaotic or experimental aesthetic while the second one, born in 2003, stemmed almost exclusively from Darkpsy. Note that the first one is uncommon contrary to the second one. 

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Lightforce    51

I almost finished the definitions pages but I still have a lot of pages to do and I'm far to have finished. I implemented a night mode in addition and a menu (not functional yet) to allow you to naviguate in the different parts.
The french version isn't started yet, only the english version. I post here a link to the website in its current development. The menu links are desactivated for instance because the pages linked to it are not ready yet. Tell me what you think about its current features and design. If you have any further recommendations don't hesitate.

The responsive isn't done yet so, for now, I strongly recommend you to go on it only if you have a screen resolution of 1920x1080 at least or higher.

The website is named "The Psychedelic Trance encyclopedia".

Here is the link : https://psychedelic-trance-encyclopedia.com/

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Proxeeus    169

Pretty slick stuff so far, good job !

Maybe down the line you could do something akin to Ishkur's Guide & have some samples ready to play in order to showcase the different sections ? (this probably has already been suggested though)

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Lightforce    51
10 hours ago, Proxeeus said:

Pretty slick stuff so far, good job !

Maybe down the line you could do something akin to Ishkur's Guide & have some samples ready to play in order to showcase the different sections ? (this probably has already been suggested though)

Thanks :)

I can't put tracks in my server as it doesn't belong to me and it's illegal, even if I use free tracks. But each sub-style page is a slide, so you have arrows right and left that lead you to the albums example and they're clickable, so it will redirect you to the album you clicked on.

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Proxeeus    169
44 minutes ago, Lightforce said:

Thanks :)

I can't put tracks in my server has they doesn't belong to me and it's illegal, even if I use free tracks. But each sub-style page is a slide, so you have arrows right and left that lead you to the albums example and they're clickable, so it will redirect you to the album you clicked on.

Gotcha ! YouTube links maybe? :P

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Padmapani    365

then ishkur's guide was equally illegal. and for just psytrance it's even less likely that one of the psy labels will object to anyone using short samples of one of their tracks as examples for a subgenre. if i were to own the rights to one of those tracks i'd be glad for the promotion :)

but yeah, youtube links would be good too.

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Lightforce    51
13 hours ago, Proxeeus said:

Gotcha ! YouTube links maybe? :P

 

11 hours ago, Padmapani said:

then ishkur's guide was equally illegal. and for just psytrance it's even less likely that one of the psy labels will object to anyone using short samples of one of their tracks as examples for a subgenre. if i were to own the rights to one of those tracks i'd be glad for the promotion :)

but yeah, youtube links would be good too.

 

I understand your point on including tracks in the website but I'm not in the head of each producers so I wouldn't take the risk to put their tracks in my website.
And for YT links I think it's not a good idea because YT links can be dead if someone remove the video, if the channel is removed or if there's country restrictions. So it will force me to check regularly if links are dead and it can happen that I run out of time ^_^

At least, with Discogs/Bandcamp links I'm almost sure links won't be deprecated.

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thanosp81    281

Excellent work. However, I thought it was a known that capitalised text only makes it harder to read? :P

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Lightforce    51
19 minutes ago, thanosp81 said:

Excellent work. However, I thought it was a known that capitalised text only makes it harder to read? :P

Thanks :)

Are you talking about titles or "regular" text ? Because only titles has been sometimes capitalised. The font used for paragraphs isn't a capitalised font.

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Lightforce    51
Posted (edited)

(This post will be updated on each changement)

List of things done/to do:

  • "Definitions" pages: done
  • "F.A.Q." pages: done
  • "Bonus" pages: in progress
  • "Origins" pages: to do
  • french translations: to do
  • responsive web design: to do
Edited by Lightforce

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Lightforce    51

I developped some features for the website for those who feel uncomfortable with some visual elements :

- a text aligner to left
- a font changer
- an opacity of backgrounds behind content changer

I placed all of them with the night mode in the lower right corner of the page ;)

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Padmapani    365
10 hours ago, Lightforce said:

- a police changer

can it be used to make the cops less fascist? ;)

 

btw: what are those half-moon and neogoa symbols supposed to do? when i click on either of them the whole website flickers briefly and the background takes on a slightly lighter or darker hue.

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Lightforce    51
13 hours ago, Padmapani said:

can it be used to make the cops less fascist? ;)

:D

I'm stupid as f*ck. I forgot that the "police" word in french is translated "font" in english. Let's say I was tired :lol:

 

13 hours ago, Padmapani said:

btw: what are those half-moon and neogoa symbols supposed to do? when i click on either of them the whole website flickers briefly and the background takes on a slightly lighter or darker hue.

The "half-moon" is an opacity symbol and it's for opacity of dark backgrounds behind content (titles, paragraphs,...etc). If you feel uncomfortable to read the texts because the transparency of the dark background isn't low enough you can click on this half-moon to lower the transparency to be only 10% instead of 20%.

And the "neogoa" symbol is a night mode that will place a dark background with 20% of transparency behind content but in front of the whole image backgrounds to reduce the eyestrain due to too bright/light colors if you're on the website in a dark room.

Note that you can combine all these modifiers if you want.

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