The Psychedelic Trance, in its entirety

[Blair Thaumic]

I agree with Celaripo here. Experimental = music that defies genre and makes up its own rules.

 

Ju Ju Space Jazz, Shaolin Wooden Men, Ubar Tmar, Rip Van Hippy, Sunkings = Experimental.

 

MWNN, (early) Juno Reactor, Cydonia, Koxbox, TIP = Goa.

 

All the Goa artists I named created their own sound, but they stay within the borders of Trance/Techno/Acid. The Experimental artists don't conform to those borders at all.

[Celaripo]

I understand your point of view, but if I create 2 categories, for example "Experimental" and "Uncategorized", what are the elements that allows you to differentiate them ? I mean, you'll always have albums where you'll not never know where to place them too much because it will rely more on subjective judgment. While the fact to merge these two categories into one eliminates these problems because their differentiation method then becomes much more objective in the sense that it is from a technical point of view that they are distinguished. This helps avoid endless debates and identify more easily the demarcation lines.

in my opinion the Experimental section should include the artists Earwall mentioned - Ubar tmar, Shaolin wooden men...

again by your term ""Uncategorized" you mean the albums that are hybrids of several genres, in that case why mention them at all? Why needing a category for it? So this MWNN album is a crossover between goa trance and club trance, allright then no need to include it in your PDF simple as that

 

I would just write a conclusion at the end of your PDF saying something like: many albums include ingredients of several different genres, therefore they can't fit 100% in a single category, these albums are usually crossover between genres, examples MWNN or xxxxxxx

don't need to make it like an official genre, but mention it as a conclusion

 

The rest of your Pdf is great. Just my 2 cents

[Lightforce]

I agree with Celaripo here. Experimental = music that defies genre and makes up its own rules.

 

Ju Ju Space Jazz, Shaolin Wooden Men, Ubar Tmar, Rip Van Hippy, Sunkings = Experimental.

 

MWNN, (early) Juno Reactor, Cydonia, Koxbox, TIP = Goa.

 

All the Goa artists I named created their own sound, but they stay within the borders of Trance/Techno/Acid. The Experimental artists don't conform to those borders at all.

 

So, by this logic, I'll take an example : "Shaolin Wooden Men - Supermindway" consists of Experimental Music, Industrial Music and Abstract Music. But it doesn't contains Psytrance or Goa Trance. Anyway, it seems to have its place in the Experimental category. Now, "Cydonia - In Fear Of A Red Planet" is composed of Goa Trance and Industrial Music. But it has no place in this category because it contains Goa Trance. So in this case "Ubar Tmar - Ubarpedia" has no place in Experimental because it is composed of Psytrance and Goa Trance, so it should be placed either in the category Goa Trance, or in one of the Psytrance sub-styles. Here is the whole problem of this reasoning. Now, do you understand where I'm going with this ?

 

in my opinion the Experimental section should include the artists Earwall mentioned - Ubar tmar, Shaolin wooden men...

again by your term ""Uncategorized" you mean the albums that are hybrids of several genres, in that case why mention them at all? Why needing a category for it? So this MWNN album is a crossover between goa trance and club trance, allright then no need to include it in your PDF simple as that

 

I would just write a conclusion at the end of your PDF saying something like: many albums include ingredients of several different genres, therefore they can't fit 100% in a single category, these albums are usually crossover between genres, examples MWNN or xxxxxxx

don't need to make it like an official genre, but mention it as a conclusion

 

The idea is not bad at all but as it's already precised in the definition of Experimental (about blends of multiple genres), make one or more page for that tantamount to creating a new category, so much leave as is.

In fact, we have both the same vision and understanding of what the experimental and non-classified blends are. The only difference is that I put them together for both presented albums as for their definition

 

Finally, I can sum up like this : in the PDF, the Experimental category is an "Out of the box" category.

 

The rest of your Pdf is great. Just my 2 cents

Thanks, you're welcome

Edited July 30, 2015 by Lightforce

[Ormion]

I think the reason people are confused is because Experimental as a term in general means weird stuff that break the boundaries. This is pretty much the definition in most musical genres. For example experimental rock or experimental jazz.

There are two things that back up your argument though:

 

1) Many pionners could easily be considered as experimental before their music becomes the norm. For example Xenomorph's first album could easily be called experimental Goa back then before the Dark sound becomes popular. Or stuff by Phreaky, Menis, ECT etc.

2) It's true that many Experimental Psytrance doesn't actually sound like Psytrance in the first place. Psy-Harmonics most stuff belong to that category.

 

However

 

I believe that Experimental means experiment with your music in a anorthodox way. Combine two or three subgenres is really an experiment? For example the 80% of Psytrance has Full On elements in it. Is the 80% of Psytrance experimental?

 

 

But as I said before all this is subjective and everyone has his own genre naming. So I don't actually disagree with you.

[Lightforce]

For example the 80% of Psytrance has Full On elements in it. Is the 80% of Psytrance experimental?

No, these 80% are not experimental because if they represent 80%, in this case this can be considered as part of the sub-style concerned.

 

Example: admit that a minority of "Forest" artists combine their productions with IDM. If they remain a small minority, their production will be considered as Experimental. However, if the fact to add IDM becomes, not necessarily a majority, but at least more or less "current" among the "Forest" productions, in this case we will add this characteristic in the definition of "Forest" and all productions that are concerned by this blend then will pass in the "Forest" category and anymore be displayed as "Forest/IDM" but just "Forest" as it is precised in the "Forest" definition.

 

Example of the example (inceptionxamples ) : given the number of genres and styles which consists Psychedelic Trance, when you tell someone that you listen to it, you tell him "I listen to Psychedelic Trance" and not "Me ? Uh... I listen to Psychedelicacidhousenewbeatebmhardtranceacidtrancetechno ".

Edited July 30, 2015 by Lightforce

[Ormion]

Wall of text incoming.


Full On:

I think the fathers of Full On are GMS. AFAIK they were the first group that focus on the rolling bass and the effects instead of the melodies. Under that definition you could tell that were pioneers of Psytrance as well, but IMO GMS defined the Full On sound specifically. Meanwhile Xerox & Freeman were one of the first (if not the first) group from Israel with an obvious Full On style. There were artists like Children Of The Doc (aka Psysex) as well or Cosmic Navigators. In France Absolum’s early tracks defined Full On a lot IMO. His album Wild was influential in Full On especially in the Twilight genre.
Now when it comes to the more clubby sound we associate Full on with I think 1200 Mics were definitely pioneers together with Alien Project and Astrix.

Influential releases:
GMS-Chaos Laboratory
GMS-Growly Family
Xerox & Freeman-Human Race
Absolum-Wild
Alien Project-Midnight Sun
1200 Mics-1200 Mics

Year of origin:
I would say 1998, completely defined in 2001

Origin of the name:
Either the Full On series by HOM-Mega compilations (most plausible) or the Full (Mo)On festical (far fetched if you ask me) or the Etnica track (I don’t think so).




Twilight:

Realistically Twilight has the same origins with Full On since it comes from it. However we may be able to find the early Twilight influences. IMO 3D Vision were the pioneers of the sound with a darker, more aggressive form of Full On. Absolum-Wild features a most aggressive bass that normal Full On and a darker sound. Talamasca’s tracks after 1999 as well Nomad (early DJ Mael) defined the genre.
When it comes to South Africa 2002 is the definitely the year we got introduced to their sound. AFAIK SA had a big scene with already established artists, but the world found out their sound in 2002.

Influential releases:

Absolum-Wild
V/A-Psycho Tropic
V/A-Ultra High Frequency
Nomad-Hyperactive
V/A-Africa In Trance (South Af)
V/A-Encryption (South Af)
V/A-Alien Safari (South Af)

Year of origin:
I would say 1998 the same as Full On. It was defined as Twilight in 2006 I think.

Origin of the name:
The first time I’ve heard the term Twilight is in the booklet of Shift-Byte Me. The same year Pitch Hikers-Twilight Zone released. I’m pretty sure South Africa artists first use it.



Dark Psytrance:

This is tricky since they’re two origins. The Dark Psytrance overall and the Darkpsy one.
When it comes to Dark Psytrance I think is very difficult to trace it since it begins in Dark Goa. I would say artists like Cydonia, Phreaky, Psychaos, Tortured Brain, Tim Schuldt, UX, Slide etc. are among the fathers of Dark Psytrance. Now leaving Goa behind I think X-Dream-Radio was highly influential and of course Xenomorph-Cassandra’s Nightmare.(I would add Hux Flux-Cryptic Crunch, but I don’t know if people would agree).
Another two albums that associated Psytrance with pure darkness are Dark Soho-Sunspot and The Delta-Scizoeffective.

Influential releases:
V/A-Kiss The Future
X-Dream-Radio
Xenomoprh-Cassandra’s Nightmare
Dark Soho-Sunspot
The Delta-Scizoeffective

Year of origin:
Difficult to define. I’d say 1998.

 

 

 

Darkpsy:

I think the fathers of Darkpsy are definitely Parasense. IMO they are who defined how Darkpsy will sound. Neuromotor’s early tracks were highly influential as well. The label that “created” the sound is definitely Acidance. Other influential artists are Dark Nebula, Droidsect, Lemurians and Skazi (oh yes).
Parvati was the first label AFAIK that introduced the more crazy and harder Darkpsy sound. However Xenomorph’s debut is still the one that started all.

Influential releases:
Xenomorph-Cassandra’s Nightmare
Parasense-Apple
V/A-Drug Therapy
Neuromotor-Neuro Damage
V/A-First Step

Year of origin:
2001

 

Forest:

I think we can all agree that BOTFB are the fathers of Forest. Together with Ka-Sol they pretty much created the forest sound. I personally think that Logic Bomb and Hux Flux were some early pioneers without being actually Forest. When it comes to the more complex Darkpsy-ish Forest I think Derango must be the first with so much focus in effects. Of course Schlabbaduerst records are the most famous Forest label. Other highly influential labels are Boom! (not a forest label, but helped the genre) and Stoneage records.


Influential releases:
BOTFB-Twin Sharkfins
V/A-Tales From The Forest
V/A-Psychoactive Psychosounds
Schlabbaduerst 001


Year of origin:
1997-98 somewhere there I guess.
2003 for the modern Forest sound.

Origin of the name:
I guess from the Tales Of The Forest compilation?

 

 

Psycore:

I think Psycore has the same origins of Darkpsy. If we’re gonna define Psycore as very hard Darkpsy as oppose to superfast Darkpsy then Parvati’s first 3 compilations are the very first releases that comes to my mind. However if we define Psycore as fast Darkpsy with horror atmosphere then it’s difficult to find the origins. 2007 was the first time I’ve heard 170+ “evil” Darkpsy in various compilations.

Origin of the name:
Around 2007-08 I’ve first heard the term Psycore. It’s obviously a portmanteau of
Psytrance and Hardcore (or Speedcore). Funny thing I remember that term was used as a way to mock this kind of music by haters, since hardcore ain’t that respectable in the Psytrance field.

 

 

Hi-Tech:

Technically Psycore and Hi-Tech share the same origins. Hi-Tech as a term didn’t get introduced until 2012-13. Anything Darkpsy-ish with high bpm was called Psycore. Since the introduction of the Hi-Tech term and the split between the two genres it’s easier now to define the Hi-Tech origins. Technically Cosmo, Highko and their Highcosmos project is an early version of Hi-Tech, but without the ultra fast bpm. That’s why IMO Furious-Uncanny Beats is the first truly Hi-Tech album.


Influential releases:
V/A-Peace For The Wicked
Cosmo-Akustical Pollution
Furious-Uncanny Beats


Year of origin:
2007

Origin of the name:
No idea.

[Lightforce]

Hi-Tech:

 

Origin of the name:

No idea.

 

"Highko ‎- Poison Brothers Making Noise", the 8th track with the featuring with Cosmo is named "High Tech". I don't know if it comes from this but it seems to me.

 

PS : and again, thanks a lot for your great help

[Ormion]

 

"Highko ‎- Poison Brothers Making Noise", the 8th track with the featuring with Cosmo is named "High Tech". I don't know if it comes from this but it seems to me.

 

PS : and again, thanks a lot for your great help

 

Good catch.

[Padmapani]

tbh, if someone asked me for one album representing dark goa trance, i'd most likely recommend in fear of a red planet. likewise i'd have no qualms about recommending anything by mwnn as an example for oldschool goa trance. to me it's rather the definition of the genre than an experimental offshoot.

[Lightforce]

It's not over yet, it lacks descriptions to add on each sub-style concerning their birth conditions, but here's the timeline. Feel free to tell me what you think about it

 

[Rotwang]

Very nice, but why is there no line for 2002?

[Lightforce]

Very nice, but why is there no line for 2002?

 

Because there was no sub-style born in 2002

[Paul Eye]

I'd say proto-goa goes up until 1994. There were already some rather proper goa releases that year, Discogs is always your friend

[Ormion]

Looks good. But we definitely had Goa in 1994 that wasn't Proto-Goa.

[Padmapani]

i'd let oldschool goa trance start before suomi and experimental. after all it's what led to the creation of the others (except psybient). there was some proper goa around in 1994, so it won't be counterfactual.

edit: seems like there's much agreement here

 

also i'd move the boundary between oldschool and newschool to 2002 or 2003. the reason being etheral's album and the (clearly newschool) blissful moments compilation.

 

i think nitzhogoa started earlier. basically with lost buddha's releases in 2006.

 

if you add "pre-fullon", i'd also add "post-fullon" starting in 2008. the sound changed much more in 2008 than it did in 2001.

 

 

another thing that's puzzling me is psybreaks starting in 1995? some breakbeats in chillout tracks were present of course, but it's all psybient to me. psybreaks as a genre with the heavy beat of "breakbeat" must surely be a thing of the 00s??

[Ormion]

Yeah I agree that newschool started in 2003 with Ethereal and Ypsilon 5.

 

the sound changed much more in 2008 than it did in 2001.

It did? In what way? The only thing I can guess is the progressive elements, but that was since 2000 (see Cosma).

 

another thing that's puzzling me is psybreaks starting in 1995? some breakbeats in chillout tracks were present of course, but it's all psybient to me. psybreaks as a genre with the heavy beat of "breakbeat" must surely be a thing of the 00s??

There were artists like Digitalis or Funkopath, but that was in 2007 I think.

[Blair Thaumic]

Psybreaks: Digitalis, Eat Static, Exotic Matter, artists on 21-3 Records around 1997/98.

 

Eat Static - Dionysiac comes from 1995, and that's (arguably) a psybreaks track.

[Paul Eye]

i'd let oldschool goa trance start before suomi and experimental.

Yep.

 

another thing that's puzzling me is psybreaks starting in 1995? some breakbeats in chillout tracks were present of course, but it's all psybient to me. psybreaks as a genre with the heavy beat of "breakbeat" must surely be a thing of the 00s??

What about some Matsuri releases like Sympathy In Chaos (1997), Feel The Noyze (1997), Let It Rip (1997), Forever Psychedelic (1998), Digitalis - The Third State (1998), or releases by Snake Thing for example?

Maybe some pre-psybreaks from 1997/1998 to whenever it became "proper" psybreaks (that I'm not really familiar with).

[Lightforce]

Ok, after some modifications, here's the result :



But I still have some doubts about the birth of the New School Goa Trance around 2003 rather than 2004.

Yeah I agree that newschool started in 2003 with Ethereal and Ypsilon 5.

First Ypsilon 5 release was in 2004.

And about Ethereal :

Ethereal album must stay in Old School => The first versions of tracks released on "Anima Mundi" already date back to 1999 and including an EP was available in 1999 as DAM CD distributed by MP3.com. The album has tooked a long time to be finalized and was finally released in 2003.

=> http://unreleasedgoa.blogspot.fr/2013/11/ethereal_7220.html

Edited August 9, 2015 by Lightforce

[Ormion]

Dark Progressive birth should be in 2000 IMO. The pioneers of the dark prog sound (S-Range, Noma, Michael Andresen, Phoney Orphants etc.) all released their first tracks in 2000.

I would also add the short lived Tech Trance in the diagram from 2000 to 2002.

[Lightforce]

Dark Progressive birth should be in 2000 IMO. The pioneers of the dark prog sound (S-Range, Noma, Michael Andresen, Phoney Orphants etc.) all released their first tracks in 2000.

I would also add the short lived Tech Trance in the diagram from 2000 to 2002.

 

It's ok for Dark Psyprog modification, but about Tech Trance, just like Downtempo, this is not a style only affiliated to Psychedelic Trance.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Lightforce

[Ormion]

I mean the german Psychedelic Techno of that period. It was definitely a Psytrance subgenre.

[Lightforce]

I mean the german Psychedelic Techno of that period. It was definitely a Psytrance subgenre.

 

Are you refering to "Psy Tech" ? "Psy Techno", "Psy Tech", "Tech Trance",...it's a real mess with Techno crossings... ("Psy Techno" = "Psy Tech" ??? Unless that "Psy Techno ≠ "Psy Tech". And I can be wrong but for me the word "Trance" in "Tech Trance" refere to "classic Trance", no ??? )

Edited August 9, 2015 by Lightforce

[Ormion]

Are you refering to "Psy Tech" ? "Psy Techno", "Psy Tech", "Tech Trance",...it's a real mess with Techno crossings... ("Psy Techno" = "Psy Tech" ??? Unless that "Psy Techno ≠ "Psy Tech". And I can be wrong but for me the word "Trance" in "Tech Trance" refere to "classic Trance", no ??? )

Yeah, some ppl call it Psytech, or Psytek or Psy Techno or Tech Trance. It was the German sound by artists like Midi Miliz, Spirallianz, Authentik etc.

[Lightforce]

Edited July 28, 2016 by Lightforce