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Red_Drag0n

Pls Explain the Difference between these ...

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Red_Drag0n    0

Hello , im new to psytrance . And lately i've been listening a lot of goa/psy and came to know that goa and psytrance are not exactly the same even though many considers them the same since psy originated from goa.

Well, Psy is less melodious than goa ... Whereas Psytrance's subgenre Progressive Psy is somewhat melodious , not in a cheesy way , but rather has a smooth , hypnotic melody.

 

Now i'm having some problems . Please tell me , is Progressive PsyTrance the same as Progressive Goa ??

I haven't heard much Progressive Goa ... only heard the 90s old school goa which is highly energetic and fast , and the melodies in it varies from eastern melodies to dark melodies.

So what exctly is Progressive Goa ? How its different from Progressive PsyTrance ?

 

Also how many sub-genres are there in Goa?

I mean i know the subgenres of PsyTrance like , Prog Psy, FullOn Psy , Dark/Forest Psy.

But are there any sub-genres of goa like Progressive Goa or Ambient Goa ?

And pls don't say they are all the same coz i'm not one of those people who would consider Goa and Psy the same stuff.

Thanx.

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Richpa    923

I consider Anakoluth to be good example regarding the progressive Goa trance music:

 

Ambient Goa, not sure, maybe this album:

 

Some downtempo Goa:

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Ormion    434

I don't think Progressive Goa is a thing. There are some artists that combine Progressive Psy and Goa, but there are a few and it's a more recent trend. I think we need more to consider it a separate genre.

If you want to know more about the various subgenres maybe you could check this playlist.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF6FEA169E0E5EED6

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Drosophila    104

progressive originally less melodic than psytrance (generaly speaking) and not the other way around, and also psy usually have a different melodic structure, but can be equally melodic although not so often the case.

 

some examples

so generally speaking this would be considered:

 

goa (Subcouds - On Red)

 

psy trance (Logic Bomb - Mental Poison)

 

progressive (beat Bizarre - Monochrome)

 

 

and of course with all the variations in between (and way different from these examples... but just to give and idea about the structural differences)

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Red_Drag0n    0

progressive originally less melodic than psytrance (generaly speaking) and not the other way around, and also psy usually have a different melodic structure, but can be equally melodic although not so often the case.

Hmmm, you said Progressive is less melodic than Psytrance , but i found many latest progressive psy that are melodic , not loud & chessy melodic , but slow and smooth melodic.

Here are some examples -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0FCh27f0OI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bpBKgf51ws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn2yMeA3qlw

 

So, what do you think ? Are these really Prog Psy that i posted above ? thanx

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Padmapani    442

So, what do you think ? Are these really Prog Psy that i posted above ? thanx

yup. it's all progressive psytrance.

 

there is no subgenre called progressive goa. even if some newer progressive combines elements of goa into progressive like the latest ovnimoon.

 

your examples are not necessarily more melodic than some of the earlier progressive psytrance. try this one:

it's imho a lot closer to goa than the tracks you posted and still it's definitely progressive psytrance.

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Red_Drag0n    0

yup. it's all progressive psytrance.

 

there is no subgenre called progressive goa. even if some newer progressive combines elements of goa into progressive like the latest ovnimoon.

 

your examples are not necessarily more melodic than some of the earlier progressive psytrance. try this one:

it's imho a lot closer to goa than the tracks you posted and still it's definitely progressive psytrance.

Thanx :)

and that's an awesome track you posted. The first 5 mins is full of slow calm melodies and then the goa like sounds kick in ... Did you upload it ?

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Drosophila    104

yup. it's all progressive psytrance.

 

there is no subgenre called progressive goa. even if some newer progressive combines elements of goa into progressive like the latest ovnimoon.

 

your examples are not necessarily more melodic than some of the earlier progressive psytrance. try this one:

it's imho a lot closer to goa than the tracks you posted and still it's definitely progressive psytrance.

 

I would call that morning trance and not progressive...

 

 

In general most of what is called progressive is progressive trance... not really progressive psytrance :P which is quite rare I would say... if it not just from borrowing the name (as often happens).

 

For me psychedelic is very often overused for music that is just trance (not meant in bad way)... I mean it takes more than having melodies and few knobs being turned to be psychedelic... ;)

 

The second Ender track is more like it (the psy-prog thing), much I would classify the rest as progressive trance (well the first ender is almost full-on.. full-on prog maybe?! :P)

 

Hedonix is one of those rare acts that really mix psytrance and prog (progressive psytrance)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSND3Ie5QN4

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Padmapani    442

Thanx :)

and that's an awesome track you posted. The first 5 mins is full of slow calm melodies and then the goa like sounds kick in ... Did you upload it ?

it's one of my favourites :)

no, i didn't upload it. up to now i simply cannot figure out how to put some music on youtube :D:ph34r:

 

 

I would call that morning trance and not progressive...

 

 

In general most of what is called progressive is progressive trance... not really progressive psytrance :P which is quite rare I would say... if it not just from borrowing the name (as often happens).

 

For me psychedelic is very often overused for music that is just trance (not meant in bad way)... I mean it takes more than having melodies and few knobs being turned to be psychedelic... ;)

 

morning trance? well, surely. but nearly any kind of psy (well, maybe not dark and twilight ;)) can be morning trance. morning goa, morning fullon, morning progressive :)

if i'd have to choose an artist as the pioneer of progressive psy i'd choose human blue. (well a few others like atmos also deserve to be mentioned, but human blue is more or less the definition of progressive for me).

 

ah, the old discussion of "progressive psytrance" vs. "progressive trance" :)

i totally agree that a lot (the majority rather) of progressive has very little to do with psy, but you know, there's a totally different genre called "progressive trance" that doesn't have its roots in psytrance but "normal" trance and predates unpsychedelic progressive psytrance. namely that's the kind of commercial "normal trance" music of tiesto and the like played and that was so popular in the late 90s.

so to avoid confusion, i still call it "progressive psytrance" even though a lot of it doesn't deserve the "psy" in there.

 

 

 

full-on prog

we used to call that neo-full in 2006 ;). don't ask me where that name comes from. no wonder no one uses that term now :)

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Shpongled247    76

it's one of my favourites :)

no, i didn't upload it. up to now i simply cannot figure out how to put some music on youtube :D:ph34r:

 

 

morning trance? well, surely. but nearly any kind of psy (well, maybe not dark and twilight ;)) can be morning trance. morning goa, morning fullon, morning progressive :)

if i'd have to choose an artist as the pioneer of progressive psy i'd choose human blue. (well a few others like atmos also deserve to be mentioned, but human blue is more or less the definition of progressive for me).

 

ah, the old discussion of "progressive psytrance" vs. "progressive trance" :)

i totally agree that a lot (the majority rather) of progressive has very little to do with psy, but you know, there's a totally different genre called "progressive trance" that doesn't have its roots in psytrance but "normal" trance and predates unpsychedelic progressive psytrance. namely that's the kind of commercial "normal trance" music of tiesto and the like played and that was so popular in the late 90s.

so to avoid confusion, i still call it "progressive psytrance" even though a lot of it doesn't deserve the "psy" in there.

 

 

 

we used to call that neo-full in 2006 ;). don't ask me where that name comes from. no wonder no one uses that term now :)

 

Hmmm.. As you kind of allude to though, isn't "progressive psytrance" far, far, farrrr closer to "normal" progressive trance than anything else?

 

As such, I think most of that stuff should just be classified as progressive trance... at least to me, there is nothing psychedelic about it, so there is no genre of progressive psy (a "psychedelic" speech sample does not a psychedelic track make!)

 

In my head anything that just drops out to a bassline i dont classify as psychedelic trance these days lol but I am a purist and don't expect others to think exactly the same ;)

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Padmapani    442

 

Hmmm.. As you kind of allude to though, isn't "progressive psytrance" far, far, farrrr closer to "normal" progressive trance than anything else?

 

As such, I think most of that stuff should just be classified as progressive trance... at least to me, there is nothing psychedelic about it, so there is no genre of progressive psy (a "psychedelic" speech sample does not a psychedelic track make!)

 

In my head anything that just drops out to a bassline i dont classify as psychedelic trance these days lol but I am a purist and don't expect others to think exactly the same ;)

 

umm... no.

unpsychedelic progressive "psy"trance:

 

progressive trance:

 

i don't see that many similarities. imho the "unpsychedelic progressive psytrance" is closer to minimal house (or the house variant they started calling "minimal techno" in the last few years) than anything else. it certainly doesn't fit in the "trance" category.

 

minimal house( = microhouse?) :

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Rotwang    323

I don't think I've heard PvD described as progressive before.

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Shpongled247    76

 

umm... no.

unpsychedelic progressive "psy"trance:

 

progressive trance:

 

i don't see that many similarities. imho the "unpsychedelic progressive psytrance" is closer to minimal house (or the house variant they started calling "minimal techno" in the last few years) than anything else. it certainly doesn't fit in the "trance" category.

 

minimal house( = microhouse?) :

 

Ummm.. So.. its closer to minimal house than anything psychedelic trance in your opinion yeah? That is kind of along the lines of my point.. :)

 

Thats ok with me, just don't call it progressive psytrance :) Or at least I wont, I don't care what anyone else calls it tbh.

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Padmapani    442

I don't think I've heard PvD described as progressive before.

 

i've been looking at multiple sources to confirm what i remembered and if you look up progressive trance (outside of the psy circles) you'll inevitably run into paul van dyk, armin van buuren, tiesto, ferry corsten, ...

so it seems like to a lot of the listeners of that kind of music that's progressive trance, while "trance" is rather the early 90s kind (or the umbrella term of course). of course the terms over there are pretty interchangable, like we use "progressive trance" instead of "progressive psytrance" (often even for the psychedelic stuff), or maybe rather in the way we shorten "goa trance" to "goa"...

 

 

 

Ummm.. So.. its closer to minimal house than anything psychedlic trance in your opinion yeah? That is kind of along the lines of my point.. :)

yeah, i know we agree on that ;)

 

still, to avoid confusion i'll not call it "progressive trance", but i'd sure be happy if people adopted a completely new name for that style of music (together with the perfectly non-psychedelic post-fullon) and split off from the psy community for good.

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Shpongled247    76

What about "Not really Progressive kinda minimal going nowhere fast and safely edgy house trance" ?

Has a certain ring to it no? lol

:P

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Padmapani    442

totally :D

i wish they would put that on the flyers beside the djs playing that kind of musc ;)

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Ilgaz    5

Paul Van Dyk, Armin Van Buuren or Tiesto were making Dutch Trance / Euphoric Trance..

Travelling is close to Progressive Dutch Trance yes,

Now they are doing shit anyway : )

 

There is no sub-genre called Progressive Goa Trance yes, but some artists use Goa melodies or samples with Progressive Psy elements,

 

like Ascent:

 

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Red_Drag0n    0

There is no sub-genre called Progressive Goa Trance yes, but some artists use Goa melodies or samples with Progressive Psy elements

Ok. And is goa trance always fast and energetic , with loud eastern/dark melodies ? ... coz i came upon a few goa tracks which were quite slow , not as slow as psybient though, but slower than the usual fast/energetic goa .

So, what would you call such Goa tracks? ... Btw in wiki its written that psybient is also known as Ambient Goa . Your thoughts on this one please . :)

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Psyt3k    1

We've talked about the subgenres a million times before on our Belgian psy forum and what I've learned is that everyone uses other boundaries and definitions for the genres. If you (threadstarter) are still looking for some explanations, here is mine, after a long time of collecting and talking about it... :)

 

- '94 - '99: People called it "Goatrance". In the beginning it had a more analogue and purely melodic sound to it. In the later years some artists brought out more darkish music (Cydonia, Toi Doi), more abstract music (Hux Flux, Kox Box), more subtle music (Progressive Trance. "Progressive" being an additive already being used in the Techno and regular Trance scene) and more uplifting music (Cyan) etc... So there are no real subgenres in "Goa" (as an answer to one of your questions :))
- '99 - '04 People started calling this movement "Psytrance", although that term had already been used for several releases in the '90s. This period is seen as more dry and abstract time.. Everything started sounding more polished or digital. So "Psytrance" now stands for newer music. But basically the entire genre can be called "Psytrance", as it's all psychedelic trance (when compared to the regular trance scene). The word "Goa" mostly refers to the early years, where a lot of different sounds already existed and the term "Psytrance" was also into use by some.

- '04 - now: The terms "Fullon", "Dark Psy", "Progressive", "Nitzhonot"... are being used to refer to specific sounds of Psytrance, that have been existing since the '90s. But most artists started focusing on these specific directions, so these terms can come in quite useful.

To answer on your question about Progressive specifically: The terms "Progressive Goa" and "Progressive Psytrance" are not really used seperately in the scene. "Progressive" is more of a specific subtle approach of trance music that has existed since the early '90s. It was there when everything was called "Goa" and it's here now everything is called "Psytrance". Over the years the sound has become more clean and digital though, so you may hear a difference between old and new music. But if something sounds more or less melodic, it's probably the artist's style.

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Padmapani    442

So, what would you call such Goa tracks? ... Btw in wiki its written that psybient is also known as Ambient Goa . Your thoughts on this one please . :)

i would call them goa. goa is just goa :). at most we differentiate between oldschool goa and newschool goa. but prana - taiyo is every bit as much goa as shaolin wooden men - s.w.m., artha - bali or ketzal - ganesh pramana.

 

don't dig too deep into the classification of downtempo music. it gets even more confusing and up to personal preferences there :)

i divide only into "psychill" and "psydub" while others have many subcategories. for some "ambient" is only beatless ambient, while for others downtempo psy/goa (with a 4/4 kick) or breakbeat psychill also falls in the ambient category. it's not even clear where uptempo stops and downtempo begins. quite a few tracks of crossing mind fall somewhere in between, so some people designate that as "mid-tempo goa". i also see albums like those from gmo vs. dense classified as "downtempo progressive" :rolleyes:

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Red_Drag0n    0

Thanx guys for all the help on goa & prog psy . Now need some help on Full-On Night & Dark-Psy?

 

What do you think of this track ? It sounds a bit like Goa , but under album description it was written Full-On Night ?

 

 

Here's another track below from the same album

This one sounds dark & highly energetic, and thus its Full-On Night i guess.

So can i call it dark-psy instead of calling it full-on night ??

 

Its just that i'm categorizing my tracks on youtube ... and under my full-on playlist i don't wanna add any dark or night tracks ... i'm only adding cheesy/happy/morning tracks under my full-on playlist ... and so would rather add this second track under my dark-psy playlist if you guys think that's ok . thanx

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Padmapani    442

night fullon?

twilight at best imho, but i'm no expert on these darkpsy-ish things...

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Shpongled247    76

Twilight or night full on yep. Both of which can come under the umbrella of dark psy...

 

I wouldn't get so caught up in all the sub genres if I were you. Too confusing and open to interpretation.

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Jikkenteki    7

I don't think I've heard PvD described as progressive before.

The term "progressive" mixed with trance has redefined itself a number of times. Back in the late 90's early 2000's "progressive trance" wasn't really used by itself in the psy-circles I was involved in and almost always referred to the more popular flavor of trance with artists like Paul Van Dyk, Tiesto, etc. Around that period there was a trend in psy that many people called "minimal" which peaked, died out for a bit in the full on backlash against it, and then basically (at least in my view) came back with a few new influences as progressive psy-trance, which eventually worked itself into what you have today. For the younger generations it is probably different, but for me the term "progressive trance" will always bring to mind artists like Tiesto, Salt Tank, etc and not anything in the psychedelic realm.

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