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What are the worst things about psytrance and it's culture?

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Shpongled247    76

Nothing. I love it all. Ok, almost..

 

I don't love the homogenisation and watering down of what is considered psychedelic music... The same sounds, copy paste prog stuff and some dark that exudes little to no creativity and definitely is not psychedelic. Goa in its beginnings was a music without rules, about experimentation and pushing the boundaries of both music and mind together..

 

I think that has been lost a tiny bit. But also developed in other areas so...

 

<3

 

Ps: Positive use of "drugs" or other natural states for exploring human potential is, and always will be a major component of psychedelic music. Not to say one has to take drugs to enjoy but this music is inherently imparting an altered state... It's subjective though so each to their own.

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Padmapani    405

Isn't that, more or less, what counterculture is? A (part of a) blueprint for a better society.

 

Wikipedia: "A counterculture (also written counter-culture) is a subculture whose values and norms of behavior deviate from those of mainstream society, often in opposition to mainstream cultural mores." Examples: Beatniks, Hippies. We might no be a real counter culture, because we aren't significant enough as a movement, but we're certainly closer to counterculture than to mainstream culture.

 

As I see it capitalism/materialism, authoritarianism and conformity are core values of our current mainstream society, contrary to some of the core values of the goa/psy community (spirituality, freedom...)

surely. that's why i was wondering why you placed it in the middle of all that spiritualism/esoteric stuff. we're definitely a counterculture (yes, you're right, not a very significant one), but our values, norms, behaviour and social interaction don't necessarily include these things. what i mean is: a counterculture is... erm.. "was handfestes", and not something you either believe in or not, which might be true or not (the majority imho most likely isn't).

 

 

 

 

The whole reputation of goatrance seems to have changed. Earlier it was known for the weird music that nobody of my friends could really connect to -- nowadays it's just known for the "most radical drugs". Kinda, "if you want the real shit, go to some goaparty, there they sell it". It was not me who said that, but a colleague I know from work. Statements like these would have seemed unthinkable to me some time ago.

it's funny that those parties, at least in our area, have always been the tekno parties. concerning drugs psy parties certainly are like a detox center in comparison. at least it was like that 10 years back or so.

 

weird music? i remember goa being called "zeckentechno" every so often back in the day, by partygoers who'd usually listen to more commercial edm. so i guess it was rather known for the dirty hippies than for the music ;)

 

 

 

 

 

Since we are talking about the culture, what are your political (if any) views? I'm currently on the borderline between being a minarchist and an anarcho-capitalist. I can't really speak too much about what I dislike about the psy culture since I've only really got into it this year (but I have listened to a ton of stuff).

anarchist. anarchism without adjectives, because that's the easy way if you're not sure which variant is the best ;). i'm switching back and forth between mutualism and anarcho-communism.

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Richpa    910

I'm not gonna comment the music itself, because each subculture got it's bright and less bright moments and afterall it all comes to disscussion about the personal taste, but what I find irritating and somehow in my opinion it gives bad reputation to the psychedelic trance scene (or culture) is a lack of professionalism on various leveles. I mean, nobody is perfect and we all do mistakes from time to time, but seeing some artists and party promotors doing the same stuff and same mistakes over and over again, makes me...well...sad. Also, I dislike so-called hardcore hippes on LSD who tend to go around and say 'respect bro', 'PLUR', etc, but yet they somehow forget to act in such a manner. Well, that's all from personal experience and thoose things turns me away to identify myself as a small part of this moevement, but yet, this music and culture got so much positive things, that all the negativity sooner or later dissappear.

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technosomy    252

i am interested what you class as "drugs"

and hope you are not classifying psychedelics in the same category

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Balance    61

I agree that there seems to be a global acceptance in this scene both in big & small gigs as well as labels of unprofessional conduct that only hurts the scene itself. I could imagine that there has been ample time for this scene to hold it's integral message yet develop as big as other electronic music styles.

 

Anyway, if wishes were fishes etc. it's just sad to see so much repetition of poor conduct. Earthcore in Australia IMHO were/are a prime example but I best mind what I say as they don't take any negative feedback well.

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healium    9

Honestly I think the thing that puts me off of psytrance is the high BPM - some of the progressive is great - but why can't there be really psychedelic house music? If there were I'd probably listen to that more..

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desysko    82

While it's not a cultural thing, more of the subgenre. I can't stand darkpsy at all. Every time I try to listen to it, I lose interest in it quite fast (hahaha, may be because the high bpm making it lose interest fast hahaha).

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ouroboros    4

i have to say the thing i like least is all the neo hippie, spiritual, alien, energy healing, crystals, plur nonsense. i get it...i understand why its there, and i dont mind the imagery in the music and the art. what bugs me is the people. hippies died out in the (very) early 70's. YOU ARE NOT A HIPPIE. nearly all the pseudo new age dread lock having white kids i see at psy parties wouldnt know what hippie culture was if it came up and tried to fuck them in their tents.

 

seriously...i cant stand it.

 

i hate to break it to you guys, but psytrance has far more in common with harsh industrial and ebm than to anything hippies ever danced to. its closer to skinny puppy and front 242 than it is to jefferson airplane or iron butterfly.

 

anyhoooooo....as far as the drugs go. really guys? you dont like "psychedelic" trance to be associated with drug use? umm...thats like saying you dont like oktoberfest being associated with beer. drug use is inherent to the genre. you can not separate them. whether you personally use drugs or not...the fact is the music is specifically designed with drug use in mind, drug use is part and parcel of the psychedelic experience.

 

with that in mind...i also find it quite annoying when people complain about drug use in the psy scene, or whine when the darkpsy comes on.

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Ormion    423

Drugs I don't use, but I don't care. Outsiders think that I'm a junkie for listening to psy=zero fucks given.

UFO, paranormal, Hindu religion is an integral part of the scene. You don't have to believe in those things to see the connection between them and our culture just like metalheads are not satanists for having Devil in their favourite band cover.

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radi6404    30

All the imagery in goa and psychedelic trance is more to give it a story I think. Otherwise the tracks would be just empty and the sound of goa and psy really suits such religions. Soundwise elements are taken that can be connected to that music. It is just the same as talking about space and goa or psy. Space doesn´t have a lot to do with psy and I don`t associate many tracks with space or floating in ispace. It is different for anyone but the imagery is used to give psytrance a story. Earlier there was some connection but aktually psy did not even evolve in a hindu or buddhist country.

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franki    34

 

i have to say the thing i like least is all the neo hippie, spiritual, alien, energy healing, crystals, plur nonsense. i get it...i understand why its there, and i dont mind the imagery in the music and the art. what bugs me is the people. hippies died out in the (very) early 70's. YOU ARE NOT A HIPPIE.

 

 

Can't say I agree with that statement. Although I'm not into a lot of the things you mention, some of the people I know involved with the scene are most definitely hippies! It does make for a very chilled environment most of the time IMHO, whether you subscribe to part or all of the hippie ethos or not.

 

 

anyhoooooo....as far as the drugs go. really guys? you dont like "psychedelic" trance to be associated with drug use? umm...thats like saying you dont like oktoberfest being associated with beer. drug use is inherent to the genre. you can not separate them. whether you personally use drugs or not...the fact is the music is specifically designed with drug use in mind, drug use is part and parcel of the psychedelic experience.

 

Totally agree with this though.

I hardly ever indulge these days, but I don't think I'd be interested in psytrance (or techno or any other electronic dance music I enjoy) if I'd never taken anything. I honestly think to fully appreciate psy / Goa etc, you need to have had those doors opened. It's never sounds the same again.

The same with techno - until I'd danced to it on E, I could take it or leave it. Since that first time - wow - suddenly it all makes sense and I still love it even though I don't touch MDMA anymore and haven't for years.

If you don't think a lot of dance music (clearly not all) is produced to match the drug experience, I think you may be somewhat deluded.

 

One of my biggest problem with the scene is the negative attitude and in-fighting that seems prevalent. I'm sure it exists in all music scenes, but you would have thought the psy "community" would be more tollerant and less prone to knee-jerk reactions. More willing to talk / work things out without starting smear campaigns all over Facebook etc.

I do worry that the over emotional reactions of some of these people are due to caning it a bit too hard. Maybe they ought to lay off the class As a while and let their personalities stabilize a bit?

 

Genre bashing also gets tiresome very quickly. Fair play - if you don't like Darkpsy / Prog / Nu-Goa or whatever, good for you, but that doesn't make it shit.

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Ormion    423

Genre bashing also gets tiresome very quickly. Fair play - if you don't like Darkpsy / Prog / Nu-Goa or whatever, good for you, but that doesn't make it shit.

 

+1

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Richpa    910

 

i have to say the thing i like least is all the neo hippie, spiritual, alien, energy healing, crystals, plur nonsense. i get it...i understand why its there, and i dont mind the imagery in the music and the art. what bugs me is the people. hippies died out in the (very) early 70's. YOU ARE NOT A HIPPIE. nearly all the pseudo new age dread lock having white kids i see at psy parties wouldnt know what hippie culture was if it came up and tried to fuck them in their tents.

 

seriously...i cant stand it.

 

i hate to break it to you guys, but psytrance has far more in common with harsh industrial and ebm than to anything hippies ever danced to. its closer to skinny puppy and front 242 than it is to jefferson airplane or iron butterfly.

 

Well said! I remember that some of the things you mentioned in the first part of your post actually made me wanna listen to goa trance music, colorful hindu deities, alien imagery and all the cool stuff, but after some time when you being constantly exposed to such a motifs you somehow find it to be a sort of psytrance cliche... I know that people who are getting involved into this kind of music for the first time, gonna find that interesting, like if you're starting with metal music - all thoose pentagrams, satanic imagery, inverted crosses, but after some time you 'grow '(or you get tired of that) and start to enjoy in the music and pay more attention to the music :)

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Tatsu    30

 

anyhoooooo....as far as the drugs go. really guys? you dont like "psychedelic" trance to be associated with drug use? umm...thats like saying you dont like oktoberfest being associated with beer. drug use is inherent to the genre. you can not separate them. whether you personally use drugs or not...the fact is the music is specifically designed with drug use in mind, drug use is part and parcel of the psychedelic experience.

 

with that in mind...i also find it quite annoying when people complain about drug use in the psy scene, or whine when the darkpsy comes on.

 

 

Same here. I'm for sure not saying that you have to take drugs to enjoy the music. I can also enjoy it stone cold sober at work or whenever. But the first time I was propperly tripping at a psytrance party it (it= the music, the decoration, the people...) made much more sense than before. Not a surprise considering we're talking about psychedelic trance. But of course not everyobdy can handle psychedelic drugs so as I said: they are not a must to enjoy the music or the scene.

 

Nothing. I love it all. Ok, almost..

 

I don't love the homogenisation and watering down of what is considered psychedelic music... The same sounds, copy paste prog stuff and some dark that exudes little to no creativity and definitely is not psychedelic. Goa in its beginnings was a music without rules, about experimentation and pushing the boundaries of both music and mind together..

 

I think that has been lost a tiny bit. But also developed in other areas so...

 

<3

 

Ps: Positive use of "drugs" or other natural states for exploring human potential is, and always will be a major component of psychedelic music. Not to say one has to take drugs to enjoy but this music is inherently imparting an altered state... It's subjective though so each to their own.

 

Actually that's the thing I laso criticise the most about the scene. Most releases sound way too similar for my ears. Same bassline, same effects, some movie samples and that's it. I'm still able to find interesting stuff but I have to dig so deep for it it just doesn't make sense. Obviously you can say I might be tired of hearing the same music for all those years. But I doubt it's just that. I always listened to other styles and when I listen to my records I can still see their beauty. But lots of the new stuff is not psychedelic anymore (because I have the impression lots of artists just do what everybody does) if you ask me.

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surely. that's why i was wondering why you placed it in the middle of all that spiritualism/esoteric stuff.

 

Ah, now I see what you mean. I just put it there because it's one of the kinds of vibes that goa/psy trance carries for me, it had nothing to do with it being proveable/"handfest" or not like those other things may or may not be. ;)

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Rotwang    323

Probably the association of drugs for me too. I really hate how every new person I meet has this idea that it's nothing more than crazy sounds meant to be listened while fucked up. So naturally the first thoughts are probably that I do drugs or some shit.

I don't know why that bothers you. When I tell people I like psytrance and they ask me if it's music for druggies, I simply tell them the truth: that many, but my no means all, of the fans are into psychedelics. Why would they have a problem with that? As a matter of fact I recently said as much to the boss of a company who was considering hiring me as an intern; I still got the internship.

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kathmandu    3

I think the worst part of psytrance is that in many countries and many parties get closed down by the authority and police.

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Trunksan    84

First of all I think the question is wrong on many levels, it's such a subjective matter that what is wrong for one person could be great to another.

I'd say there are a few things that I "don't like" and many things that I "don't like but don't care".

 

- I don't associate with all the hippy, hindu,ufo, third eye, new age (etc) culture... but I do enjoy all the colourful designs,deco and clothes that comes with it, even if sometimes it's over-the-top, it's better than it being boring or minimal

- Drugs, I don't care, I like Psy/Goa sober and I like it on substances.
In fact I think that compared to other genres, the drugs are much better and more varied than the E/MDMA that is being overconsumed in other scenes (techno, club-trance...) and the cocaine and alcohol that goes around the mainstream culture. As a British friend once said "Hippies have the best drugs but unfortunanetly they like Psytrance".

- With goa/psy being a fairly underground and not-so-popular genre, there is a bit of elitism and looking down at other kinds of music or genres, but I've notice that this is prevelent in all other scenes as well:
Techno bashing Goa, Doom Metal bashing rock n roll, Punk bashing Metal, Everyone Bashing rap/hip-hop, Rap/hip-hop bashing everyone else.... it has to do with human nature generally rather than just Goa/Psy

- I also don't like the fact that there's not much inovation or new ideas, but again I don't care since there are so many other kinds of music, that there will always be something interesting and exciting elsewhere

 

There's actually one thing that really annoys me:

- People on drugs doing stupid things, being aggresive, stealing stuff or generaly being totally druged out. I'm a big dude and quite muscly so most of these idiots don't even come close to me, but I see it happening all the time around me

 

On thing that worries me (this goes mostly for the Greek scene):

- I don't see a lot of young blood coming in... we are the same people like 10-15 years ago, just fewer in numbers, wiser and with more responsibilities that come with age. The scene will probably be non-existant in 10 years time. I actually give a lot of blame to the new generation of consoles and PCs, I've noticed that people being born around 1985is were the last generation to play in the streets and have the rebelious and don't-give-a-fuck attitude that comes with young age. As years go by, I notice kids become more clever and more educated but at the same time they also become more complaicant, more obedient, less adventurous, in one word I'd say they become more "mainstream". Obviously, this affects many facets of our lives and not just music.

Unfortunanetly this is being confirmed by my parents who both are retired language teachers and my GF who is a primary school teacher.

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Imba    318

Lack of commercial looking chicks in tight clothes or almost no clothes? :D

 

 

I really miss them on parties :(:P

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IronSun    47

Lack of commercial looking chicks in tight clothes or almost no clothes? :D

 

 

I really miss them on parties :(:P

 

Typical :P

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K-BAN    30

lots of good reading within your posts. 8)

 

I went to a lot of parties this year and what gets me feeling "Uhhh f*cccck!" is whenever someone asks me my "sign" - I enjoy chatting with someone new and possibly being friends, but every time I hear that question I just want to cover my face with my hands, hoping I can hide from them ;p

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Jason    51

lots of good reading within your posts. 8)

 

I went to a lot of parties this year and what gets me feeling "Uhhh f*cccck!" is whenever someone asks me my "sign" - I enjoy chatting with someone new and possibly being friends, but every time I hear that question I just want to cover my face with my hands, hoping I can hide from them ;p

 

Sign? Care to explain?

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GapTheMind    2

I don't mind the drugs at all, if people want to indulge then for god's sake let them indulge! What i do mind is when people get into the scene simply because of the drugs. I know a guy who usually listens to metal, he's a BIG fan of drugs (way too big in mine and most others opinion), and suddenly i see him at a psy-party! I was very surprised since he used to despise all kinds of electronic music, but at the same time happy that we've found more common ground. So a few weeks later i go to his place just to chill out, and when i put on some psy he suddenly gets all annoyed: "this music is awful, it's really stressing me out!" "Well you seemed to really enjoy it at the party" "Yea but i was fucked up at that party". WTF?! This is why people think psytrance is druggie-music, because when these kinds of people tell their friends about the awesome party they just went to, they don't tell them about the wonderful music and all the beautiful people, they tell them how fucked up they were on MDMA.

 

If you don't like the smell in the bakery, then get the fuck out of the bakery! Don't put things up your nose to try to make it smell better!

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K-BAN    30

Sign? Care to explain?

oh, sorry. zodiac sign.

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