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Production vs Live


Slina
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Ok I have some, maybe stupid question, but I must ask it...

I'm producing some trance, breakbeat etc. but I never had a live show. I know something about djing, I have Numark's Mixtrack, but I'm not pro with it... I'm wondering how producers mixing their stuff live. Are they mixing only their stuff or they are using some other samples, songs etc (I know it depends of producer, but I wonder what's the best way). I'm not sure if you can understand my question, but if you do, please try to give me some cool answer :D

 

Thanks.

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the most commonly seen way to do a "liveset" at psytrance parties, sadly, is preparing a set from your own tracks beforehand and simply pressing play when on stage. then you have the choice to either dance to your own tracks, stare at the computer screen to give the impression that you're actually doing something or to turn some knobs on a controller that's not even plugged in.

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I was afraid that is something like that... I don't like that way of djing, I like people as Psychovski, he had amazing performance at Lost Theory festival... Every second was incredible, he was mixing his songs with some funny stuff (Merry Christmas sound track and some songs from 60's) but it was unusual... I also want to include some MIDIs, Chaos Pads etc... Live must be different...

 

Some lives I like (It's not psytrance but it's still amazing):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze1ux7GiW_s

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipiouij0t7A (1:40 -)

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I was afraid that is something like that... I don't like that way of djing, I like people as Psychovski, he had amazing performance at Lost Theory festival... Every second was incredible, he was mixing his songs with some funny stuff (Merry Christmas sound track and some songs from 60's) but it was unusual... I also want to include some MIDIs, Chaos Pads etc... Live must be different...

 

Some lives I like (It's not psytrance but it's still amazing):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze1ux7GiW_s

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipiouij0t7A (1:40 -)

It's a matter of taste I guess... it were the 2 most terrible musical hours of my life... I was stage manager during his set so I had to listen to it... But it was thé hell for me... I still can't understand what that music has to do to with psy/goa trance... Really :)

 

On topic; most mix a set indeed in ableton live and press play, that simple :)

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Psykovsky at Lost Theory was absolutely disgusting. I was one metre away from him literally, and was watching his "tweaking" of so many knobs that did nothing at all to the sound.

 

He was Faking the whole thing. Pushed play on his pre made set and bullshitted the rest. Absolute rubbish. I hope someone on stage could maybe confirm but I really really doubt his controllers were even mapped and affecting anything. Just disgusting and made us leave the dancefloor.

 

Psykovsky isn't the only one but its the first I've seen someone so blatantly do that. Just... Ewe. Also his "music" was rubbish anyway compared to real forest and dark stuff being played.

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Psykovsky at Lost Theory was absolutely disgusting. I was one metre away from him literally, and was watching his "tweaking" of so many knobs that did nothing at all to the sound.

 

He was Faking the whole thing. Pushed play on his pre made set and bullshitted the rest. Absolute rubbish. I hope someone on stage could maybe confirm but I really really doubt his controllers were even mapped and affecting anything. Just disgusting and made us leave the dancefloor.

 

Psykovsky isn't the only one but its the first I've seen someone so blatantly do that. Just... Ewe. Also his "music" was rubbish anyway compared to real forest and dark stuff being played.

Hey Michael! Nice to meet you there :)

 

As for the knobs, I was the only one on the stage during his live set... :P and I think the knobs were simply "channel A" and "channel B". He was constantly switching between both channels (one with the 190 BPM music, and the other channel mostly "different" music like 2 unlimited etc). But well, for me the music sounded so blatant/dull, I don't even know if the knobs did anything extra to be honest... I even started to read a book while "waiting" till my shift was over... Sais it all I guess :)

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Psykovsky is crazy guy, during his performanse on LT people weren't able to dance and I saw that many of them were mad because of that. Me and my friends just watch him and couldn't believe what he is doing, but his madness was fun and very artistic in some crazy way... One guy fainted twice during his performance, but he was different, you must say that :D

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It's a matter of taste I guess... it were the 2 most terrible musical hours of my life... I was stage manager during his set so I had to listen to it... But it was thé hell for me... I still can't understand what that music has to do to with psy/goa trance... Really :)

 

On topic; most mix a set indeed in ableton live and press play, that simple :)

 

Ah come on Jos! Hell? You are getting old! Even I enjoyed him at Freqs of Nature... Just try to have a different mindset at a set like that. There was actually some really good pieces in his set, beautiful sounds while the bass is 190 BPM.

 

OT at Jos: How the *beeep* was Lost Theory??

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One guy fainted twice during his performance, but he was different, you must say that :D

True, different he was, and the way he was playing, fully concentrated on the music (sober!! as he woke up 20 min before his set, and he denied alcohol and joints during his set) was cool too... But the music... Too far for me... Sorry Robbert! :) I can only hope his set on Freqs was different! :) because during his set on LT I was thinking: this is not the music I fell in love with 15 years ago...

 

And hey, don't worry, this is about taste :)

 

@ Robbert: LT was great, far better then last year... Ask Proet ;) Highlights: Goch, some forest djs, Derango, Procs, Ocelot, the old school night of course (altough Darshan was bad and Psychaos mediocre) and for some weird reason Ephedrix got me into his music surprisingly well! :) D5 was superb as well, playing around 9, more Second Phaze like stuff... :)

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(altough Darshan was bad and Psychaos mediocre)

 

I also heard Darshan live this year (in Athens though) and the first half of his set was ok, but the second was unbearable, I just sat throught in case it got better but it didn't (+ my drink in the club was udalterated, which made for a bad night overall).

 

Glad to find out I wasn't crazy

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True, different he was, and the way he was playing, fully concentrated on the music (sober!! as he woke up 20 min before his set, and he denied alcohol and joints during his set) was cool too... But the music... Too far for me... Sorry Robbert! :) I can only hope his set on Freqs was different! :) because during his set on LT I was thinking: this is not the music I fell in love with 15 years ago...

 

And hey, don't worry, this is about taste :)

 

@ Robbert: LT was great, far better then last year... Ask Proet ;) Highlights: Goch, some forest djs, Derango, Procs, Ocelot, the old school night of course (altough Darshan was bad and Psychaos mediocre) and for some weird reason Ephedrix got me into his music surprisingly well! :) D5 was superb as well, playing around 9, more Second Phaze like stuff... :)

 

Yes, I just want to see you dance on some dark madness for once... It is a totally different vibe while dancing, more of a "I am loosing my mind, but it is good because I am letting go of everything" idea. Oldschool would be more of "Total trance bliss, letting go of everything thingy". I hope you get my drift ;)

 

Too bad of Psychaos, last time in Belgium he was superb.

 

ON TOPIC: What were we talking about? :P Does Crossing Mind not have more live elements? What is he using?

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@Slina: back to the topic, most artists prepare their set on Ableton live. Some have edited their tracks beforhand so there is an actual "live mix" played, but in reality Ableton is just used as a player (and the positive thing for the artists is it looks less lame than playing a CD or tracks with Windows Media Player, as we've seen in the early 2000's).

 

Now, some artists are more subtile: some only have a partial recording of their stuff played by Ableton and the remainder of the instruments are tweaked live.

Some add effects or synths to the prepared-set (Filteria does).

There is almost no artist in the Psy scene still bringing all his gear to a gig. Khetzal, Eat Static and OOOD do, but they're pretty much the only ones left.

 

On the other hand, on the electro or ambient scene, I've seen guys with a looooot of hardware set up, some playing from Logic or Cubase directly!

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But.. I would rather just watch them just mix actually live, than pretend to be playing or tweaking synths live :/

 

What does make the difference?

To me it couldn't care less if he is opening the phaser on a pre-recorder transition, or if he is moving the fader at the same time. It's about what music comes out ofthe speakers.. hate hard-tek sound, but the good thing on such parties is that you usually don't see the DJ, just a big wall of speakers. Nobody cares about the DJ, but about what sound he is playing.

I'm still interested to know if one is playing live or DJ'ing, but for me "live" doesn't mean that he is pushing a bass-knob about 600 times per second, while playing a synth-riff on the other hand. It simply means that he is playing self-created sound, while a DJ mixes tracks of others. I don't connect the term "live" with playing anything live, but more of... using Ableton "Live" *g*

Good or a bad thing? ... no real option I would say. You can't play psytrance live, that just doesn't work. There needs to be something prepared beforehand. As a 'live' act ppl except you to play your sound, so you don't have the freedom of a DJ with 1k tracks on the HDD you can select from, unless you are a very very productive producer. So what's the point in mixing in 10 tracks in row every weekend? Go record it, do some fx on top and dance with your knobs if you like. Perfectly fine.. he spend a lot of the time already making that sound and mixing isn't really required as he has no real choice of what to play.

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I just meant... I would rather if they didn't pretend to be doing something they are not. That's all.

 

Just mix your fucking set on the fly, or press play on laptop and dance around. But don't try and deceive people into thinking you are doing a "live" set if you are not ffs.

 

If you truly are doing a live ableton set (launching vlips, adding effects in real time etc) then great good for you. But pretending to?? Why?? $$$$....

 

Ps: I wouldn't normally care except I was so close to him and it was so blatantly just a show. Never seen anything like it.

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If you truly are doing a live ableton set (launching vlips, adding effects in real time etc) then great good for you. But pretending to?? Why?? $$$$....

 

Ps: I wouldn't normally care except I was so close to him and it was so blatantly just a show. Never seen anything like it.

 

Why? Entertainment. Like actors, playback artists, or wresting superstars.

Some overdo it, like everywhere, but doesn't hurt me as I know that this is a fake liveshow anyhow. If some acid fraggles like to watch psykovskys show while dancing - great - just don't assume that anything he is doing there relates to the music played currently. But that's valid for almost all artists and actually it's fun to watch those guys if you are not there to listen to live-created music, but to listen to the music of a certain artist while watching his live-show.

And about the $$$... Live-artists aren't more expensive than DJs because it's way more difficult to push "start" on Live than on Traktor... they cost more because they have spend way more time on it than a DJ beforehand. Releasing Psy MP3's is no goldmine at all, but creating professional sound is a fulltime job. So how should they make their living if they get the same fee for their liveact as the hobby-DJ from the neighbor-town, that has a nice job and spends 2h per week on making music, not 40h like the producer.

Ofc it's disappointing to expect a psytrance live performance and than to find out that is a fake.. but hey man, that's nothing new, you just found out pretty late.

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Whoa, that was a really good reply man. Seriously! Far Better than the isratrance replies haha (go there for a laugh at the shitstorm oops lol)

 

You have Some great points that I guess I overlooked. Still disappointed at the time I guess but yeah I see your point. Cheers.

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