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- The rising excess of Extra Limited Releases

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Guest D N H   
Guest D N H

It seems that lately the cases of Releases pressed in very limited number of copies, are increasing.

 

Is there maybe an exaggeration with the limitation of 300 or 500 copies? Maybe a fascination of mysticism gone wild?

 

Someone might indicate that the times we pass through are very tight and difficult in economic terms, and that has ofcourse its consequences on artistic production as well.

But can this be applied to all the cases and circumstances?

 

Imagine the Mind Rewind compilation released in 300 copies only, or the coming MR 2, or the upcoming D5.

 

My opinion on this, as a collector from the 90s, is that the (once and for all) exclusive circulation of a great release ad interim brings displeasure to the scene (especially the truehearted seekers) and in a way expresses an indirect disrespect toward the scene-loving listener because it overrates de novo the value of the released music, stresses for an unceasing vigilance, rushes and blackmails for the delight of the pleasure of an artistic excellence (amidst difficulties & priorities) which sets up also a competition between the concerned for participation to the scene (living its stages and obtaining its milestones), while tempting the curious and the opportunists.

 

On the contrary for example, i purchased Transwave's Helium in a physical store in 1999, that is 3 years after its release, or Oforia's Delirious from Beatspace, years later.

 

AND.. i do NOT carp, deprecate or deride the Producers love, loyalty and efforts for the scene's preservation. Just only a tactful & focused criticism.

 

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Guest antic   
Guest antic

My opinion on this, as a collector from the 90s, is that the (once and for all) exclusive circulation of a great release ad interim brings displeasure to the scene (especially the truehearted seekers) and in a way expresses an indirect disrespect toward the scene-loving listener because it overrates de novo the value of the released music, stresses for an unceasing vigilance, rushes and blackmails for the delight of the pleasure of an artistic excellence (amidst difficulties & priorities) which sets up also a competition between the concerned for participation to the scene (living its stages and obtaining its milestones), while tempting the curious and the opportunists.

Fully agree with that (once I finally understood what you meant :)), however I think that nowadays the reason behind it is more simple: the shift towards digital distribution means less and less people buy actual physical CDs, therefore publishers & labels look for ways to decrease the cost of the latter, e.g. by limiting the print size and the risk that they'll be left with lots of unsold CDs. I'm sure that was the main driver for Suntrip when they released InnerSpace and for Amakusa when re-issuing Hunab Ku to limit both to 300 pieces.

 

BTW, if anyone has an extra copy of VA "Mind Rewind" they're willing to part with at reasonable price, please PM me. I somehow missed the fact that it is released and was late to buy one :(

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Agneton    84

Speaking only for myself, all our releases @ sita records are printed in only 500 copies. If I wouldn't do it like that, I would loose a lot of money. And if mentioning the 'limited' characteristic right now would really make a difference in the amount of CD puchasers of our label, that would be a bit stupid. If you care for music, you buy it, not just because it's a limited edition...

 

Also, I'm 100% sure that big name-CD's such as D5, MR 2 etc. won't be printed in such small quantities. Most limited edition CD's are coming from the newer newschool goa trance artists, which are often not valued as highly by collectors, who mainly aim at buying oldschool stuff. Hence, the limited numbers of CD's are completely legitimate in those cases.

 

Hunab Ku seems to be somewhat of a standalone case, and maybe the new Brainforest CD as well, both printed in only 300 copies. Brainforest however is leaning towards Nitzhonot, which of course makes the same group of die-hard oldschool collectors run away as fast as they can. Hence, again, 300 copies is a totally understandable number.

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mars    141

first and foremost, believe me, it's VERY hard to assess how many CDs of a given release should be printed.

In the Goa genre, 1000+ was still doable in 2010. Now it's doable only if you release a blockbuster (Filteria, RA) and only after 3 years or so.

 

I have the Suntrip figures at your disposal if you want. Since november 2008, the only releases that went out of stock were Filteria's Daze of Our Lives and E-Mantra - Arcana (very last copies are on the suntrip shop). After 3.5 years we still have 250 Merr0w and Radical Distortion, we have 250-300 of all we released in 2010, 300-400 of what we released in 2011 and 500+ of what we released in 2012. I have 3000+ CDs in stock right now. See what I mean?

 

Soon there will be no point in stating "limited edition" on covers because everyone will press sub-1000 batches. 300 used to be a promo batch, in the past !!! 700 copies would be the best for us at this moment but presses charge them almost as much as a 1000 CD batch. On top of it, 500, or worse, 300 copies are much more expensive to press, per CD, so the profitability further drops. In other words, the CD is dying and all we press now is for those who still like the pleasure of holding the physical thing in their hands.

 

MindRewind is a compil made in 604 copies (not 300, but it's arguable) by collectors, for collectors(!). Personnally I'd have wished a bigger batch. Not sure what's going to happen with MR2. And this (of course, inevitably) triggered discontent, I agree with you.

 

What we did with InnerSpace and what Altar records is doing for example is also something dedicated to "afficionados" of the genre. You like the music, you are a collector, then buy it. Else get it on iTunes. As far as we're concerned, we don't want to speculate on these releases and prevent people from buying several copies for example. And if some start speculating (like it happend with Khetzal) we repress 500 copies and kill speculation. Now, I almost regret we put "limited 2010 edition" on our SUNCD02-03-04-06-07-08-10 represses. It should have been "2010 edition".

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BraneFreeze    27

"After 3.5 years we still have 250 Merr0w and Radical Distortion, we have 250-300 of all we released in 2010, 300-400 of what we released in 2011 and 500+ of what we released in 2012. I have 3000+ CDs in stock right now."

 

Just curious. With that many CDs in stock, at what point, if any, are you willing to consider deep discount "clearance sales" just to recover some of your investment?

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Ormion    420

Slightly off ctopic, but since Mars is here I'm curious to know the amount of digital sales compared to the physical ones.

Something like 70% digital - 30% physical.

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Anoebis    417

Just curious. With that many CDs in stock, at what point, if any, are you willing to consider deep discount "clearance sales" just to recover some of your investment?

 

We will... During december there will be some Christmas sales :) When you buy 3 you get 1 extra or something... :)

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Dolmot    161

It's true that CD sales are down and likely to follow that direction. While piracy is often blamed for everything, we have a whole new generation who gets everything digitally, and there are completely viable legal routes for that too. Let's face it - files are extemely convenient. I still buy plenty of CDs but rip them instantly into flacs and play those. The disc itself is rarely needed today for any musical purposes. It's a collectors' item and a proof of purchase you can re-sell later (unlike downloads). That's all. Maybe a handy back-up too.

 

(OK, in our local, utterly retarded legislation it is often cheaper for DJs to buy CDs and spin those than buy files but that's another story and a special case.)

 

I see more and more releases which are essentially just gimmick items of some kind or another. Many vinyl releases are expensive 180g discs that might sound fine but in reality 50% of them can be found on Discogs marketplace as "still sealed". People are simply shifting them from one collection to another. We have novelty packaging, mini-CDs, cassettes and whatnot - stuff meant for collecting, not playing. Oh, and limited editions. Plenty of them. It's basically a way to hint that you really should buy it right now or risk the chance of never seeing it again. Labels trying to get rid of their stuff more efficiently. I guess it works to some extent.

 

However, I miss the days when you could just wait for a few weeks, let the good stuff flow into Psyshop or whatever and then order the whole bunch from there. Now I find myself filling separate (pre-)orders in ten different micro-stores, all for single CDs. Sometimes even the same label cannot combine stock items and pre-orders. It's getting difficult and wasteful. Besides, the "limited edition" tag is losing its meaning as a single pressing of 300-500 copies is nowadays the normal edition. It's CD buyers who are really in short supply, not the goods...

 

If you finished that, you can try asking me about MR.

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mars    141

Slightly off ctopic, but since Mars is here I'm curious to know the amount of digital sales compared to the physical ones.

Something like 70% digital - 30% physical.

 

We're still making more physically. It's mostly a gut feeling, I don't have figures to show.

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Procyon    12

Neogoa albums don't sell due to another reason: even old psy trancers haven't heard of, say, Artha, E-mantra, or Filteria. NGis an obscure genre only a few - us - know it exists. I see that when psy DJs ask me what I am playing and when I tell it's NF, Artifakt 303, they are surprised. Most know by heart releases from Beatport, Saikosounds, Psyshop, but are not familiar with NG names. Here in Brazil I am sure I am the only Dj playing Goa/neogoa. NG is clearly an unknown territory.

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IronSun    45

Neogoa albums don't sell due to another reason: even old psy trancers haven't heard of, say, Artha, E-mantra, or Filteria.

 

I wouldn't say that... FIlteria playing on Boom means quite a lot. I would say that especially Suntrip is pretty well known around the world.

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Guest D N H   
Guest D N H

Soon there will be no point in stating "limited edition" on covers because everyone will press sub-1000 batches. 300 used to be a promo batch, in the past !!! 700 copies would be the best for us at this moment but presses charge them almost as much as a 1000 CD batch. On top of it, 500, or worse, 300 copies are much more expensive to press, per CD, so the profitability further drops. In other words, the CD is dying and all we press now is for those who still like the pleasure of holding the physical thing in their hands.

Its not the CD that dies, its the music collector! For the main reason of nowadays economic crisis.

Other considerable reasons may also be: The lack of quality in music or change of direction, The debility of the Cult factor, The Labels or Distributors bad "marketing" or negative treatment of the collectors. The digital distribution or the "copied tapes" is coming after.

 

Furthermore, a musical masterpiece released physically (CD, LP, Stick, whatever beautiful presentation) it will always be much better than a folder of files.

 

I have the Suntrip figures at your disposal if you want. Since november 2008, the only releases that went out of stock were Filteria's Daze of Our Lives and E-Mantra - Arcana (very last copies are on the suntrip shop). After 3.5 years we still have 250 Merr0w and Radical Distortion, we have 250-300 of all we released in 2010, 300-400 of what we released in 2011 and 500+ of what we released in 2012. I have 3000+ CDs in stock right now. See what I mean?

Yes, many copies left is a problem. But this is where there is a difference between a Label and an enthusiast production (no offence). In some extend, you represent the scene. I mean you are a point of reference for any new seeker that will discover Goa Trance tomorrow or an old goahead finding out that Transdimensional has been rereleased and RA made a new album. A new collector (truehearted like us) can make a start. He can trascedent into higher states of unknown (for him) trance in full (artistically) power.

 

Here's a nice example of mine: Back in 2007 there was alot of praise for Will i dream during the process of Yagya. I was very concetrated in Goa and i had only a loose listening of it without leaving me any special impression. But 3 years later, as i was impressed by Rigning output, i gave it a closer listening and tried to track it down, but as we all know it was too late.

 

Another example for this, is Ethereal's Anima Mundi pressed in 500 copies and gone forever back then. But Blissful Moments and Ypsilon5's Binary Sky were still available for seekers until the recent years.

 

It's though impossible a release to be available for many years. But some copies left and still circulating in mailorder catalogues after years, is greater than this situation. Many of these are not believers, but they made it in obtaining one copy or more of a limited milestone release.

 

And if some start speculating (like it happend with Khetzal) we repress 500 copies and kill speculation. Now, I almost regret we put "limited 2010 edition" on our SUNCD02-03-04-06-07-08-10 represses. It should have been "2010 edition".

Well thats my point.

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Guest D N H   
Guest D N H

Not sure what's going to happen with MR2. And this (of course, inevitably) triggered discontent, I agree with you.

 

From what i've been told then, most probably will come in a thousand copies.

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Veracohr    106

In today's shrinking CD prevalence, are more DJ's mixing with WAV files when it comes to new releases?

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masen023    37

Ok, here it is...:

 

We (The Discogs group) that released the Mind Rewind comilation pressed only 604 Copies.

 

Artists was given 69 copies, we (participants of the compilation) got 306 copies...and 229 was sold to the public.

 

Mind Rewind 2 will be pressed in 1000copies.

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Agneton    84

Here in Brazil I am sure I am the only Dj playing Goa/neogoa. NG is clearly an unknown territory.

 

What about DJ Ine, Dj Giilgamesh, Nazca, Psychowave, Davi Dos Humildes,...? There's a lot of neogoa djs/producers out there in Brazil bro! :)

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IronSun    45

we (participants of the compilation) got 306 copies

 

Just out of curiosity (because I own a copy so I'm not interested in getting another one): what happened to those? Were there that much contributors, or did everyone get 2-3 copies? Or did everyone get more copies to sell themselves, or maybe give away?

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Dolmot    161

Just out of curiosity (because I own a copy so I'm not interested in getting another one): what happened to those? Were there that much contributors, or did everyone get 2-3 copies? Or did everyone get more copies to sell themselves, or maybe give away?

Everyone got copies according to the sum contributed to the initial funding pool. Some were handed out to friends, some sold at festivals, some sold online and so on. They were effectively additional points of distribution around the world.

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Procyon    12

What about DJ Ine, Dj Giilgamesh, Nazca, Psychowave, Davi Dos Humildes,...? There's a lot of neogoa djs/producers out there in Brazil bro! :)

 

 

You're right. But Psychowave aside, I haven't heard of these other DJs. But, inferring from their names they must be in the Northeastern, far from Sao Paulo, where I live. But I wonder how, being a Brazilian I haven't heard of them, while you do...it must be because there's not a psy/goa forum anymore in Brazil. Or, there is and I haven't heard of it?

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IronSun    45

Everyone got copies according to the sum contributed to the initial funding pool. Some were handed out to friends, some sold at festivals, some sold online and so on. They were effectively additional points of distribution around the world.

 

I see, thanks for clarifying!

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Agneton    84

You're right. But Psychowave aside, I haven't heard of these other DJs. But, inferring from their names they must be in the Northeastern, far from Sao Paulo, where I live. But I wonder how, being a Brazilian I haven't heard of them, while you do...it must be because there's not a psy/goa forum anymore in Brazil. Or, there is and I haven't heard of it?

 

***sorry for the offtopic***

 

Nazca and Davi are from Bahia, but Ine and Giilgamesh are from around Sao Paulo as well. I would say especially Ine is a really popular DJ in Brazil, not only is she in Suntrip Records, but she DJ's new school goa on an almost weekly base on big parties/festivals (from universo parallello to terra em trance to ...). I can imagine the brazilian scene is really huge of course, but in terms of newschool goa, there seems to be something moving, at least! :)

 

(I know these DJ's since I played twice in brazil on neo goa parties, last year...other goa acts that have been playing there include Goasia, Filteria and Shidapu, afaik in the last two years).

 

And indeed, no brazilian forum, it seems most of these parties and events are discusses thoroughly on facebook thou :)

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needle ninja    13

In today's shrinking CD prevalence, are more DJ's mixing with WAV files when it comes to new releases?

 

All the DJ's I met in Portland played music from a laptop (it wasn't goa).

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draeke    302

Hey antic, i am sorry you couldn't buy mind rewind, you were not checking discogs or psynews too often, that is all. We announced it every where and wildly, for all who missed it: i am sorry.

 

We pressed 604 and around 300 made it to market, they were on sale on dat records website, on the goatranch and many of the original contributors had copies to sell, I a sure if you ask to the right people you may get lucky and find one.

 

Regarding pressing: I sold only 300 copies of Crossing Mind and I wish I did press 300 of that album, that was liked basically only in Belgium; I lost a lot of money with it and that is a fact. Digital sales provided me only 50 eur after 2 years of release, so what shall i do? there are 700 unsold copies and my distributor told me it won't sell even when sold at 3 pounds.

 

So limited editions for unknown artists are a must nowadays, it is not anymore the 90s as Mars pointed out.

 

As for Crop Circles I almost sold 1000 after 4 years! And that is another true story.

 

Mind Rewind generated an excellent feedback and I am actually wondering if we could offer it digitally which would be a nice thing since a lot of people can't buy it anymore but I think we will have to inform all the artists before doing this.

 

Mind Rewind 2 will be pressed in 1000 copies probably and has a lot of great tracks in it :).

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Sideffect...    12

Psy/Goatrance is between quotes underground music,

and that has it charms but I guess it's also a huge downsides for labels.

I'm glad there are people still taking the effort.

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