Zeitgeist

[IronSun]

I don't know if any of you have seen this yet, I guess many already have. None-the-less this is a ridiculously good and eye-opening movie, the likes of which I have not seen before. For the people who haven't seen it yet, I'm not going to tell anything about the contents, you just have to check it out yourself. For the one's who HAVE seen it: discuss!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

[Time_Trap]

I liked Addendum(spelling?), haven't checked the new one. Didn't like first one that much either, but Addendum I did like a lot, shows that we can have societies without money, pretty much an anarchist's point of view/goal/dream ...

[Imba]

I watched all parts and love them. But before that i know that bank and religion specialy is biggest fraud ever.

[Lemmiwinks]

was MASSIVELY dissapointed by the first one, I mean it might seem impressive at first view but the more you check the background the more you realize that the "revelations" are just theories made out of thin air with probably 10% actual facts behind. AFAIK the 2nd one was a bit more factual... hmmm say 20% lol So anyway, I'm not really inclined to see the 3rd unless it starts by admitting that jumping to conclusions without facts is not information at all.

[ma05683]

was MASSIVELY dissapointed by the first one, I mean it might seem impressive at first view but the more you check the background the more you realize that the "revelations" are just theories made out of thin air with probably 10% actual facts behind. AFAIK the 2nd one was a bit more factual... hmmm say 20% lol So anyway, I'm not really inclined to see the 3rd unless it starts by admitting that jumping to conclusions without facts is not information at all.

 

hmm

lets speak more generally

i think if you search closely at themes as Religion,Economy based lifestyle etc

a 5% is actual, real etc LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

so i dont give a damn about the conclusions without facts etc etc

the whole system is NOT based in facts,but in theories made by the existing powers(countries,religions etc) of each time

i dont care , i like the proposed theory of these films

so

for me its hilarious to speak about facts when there is no facts at our established civilisazion theory

at least the utopic conclusion of these films are better than our daily expierience

 

by the way could you tell us in which themes you found thin air (if you cant speak in facts i think your writings are under thin air,UNLESS if by your the above writings you want to ''force'' us to positive searching about these themes)

i bet

that you talk about the religion theory proposed by this film

[Rotwang]

MORE LIKE ***SHITE***GEIST LOL AMIRITE

[ma05683]

MORE LIKE ***SHITE***GEIST LOL AMIRITE

 

what does it mean?????

[Rotwang]

what does it mean?????

 

Nothing, just a tired attempt at anti-humour.

[IronSun]

Nothing, just a tired attempt at anti-humour.

 

Hah, don't worry, I lol'ed

[IronSun]

was MASSIVELY dissapointed by the first one, I mean it might seem impressive at first view but the more you check the background the more you realize that the "revelations" are just theories made out of thin air with probably 10% actual facts behind. AFAIK the 2nd one was a bit more factual... hmmm say 20% lol So anyway, I'm not really inclined to see the 3rd unless it starts by admitting that jumping to conclusions without facts is not information at all.

 

I don't really think it is about facts in this movie, except for the very obvious ones that our current "system" just isn't working out. As long as there will be something called "inequality", men will not be able to transcend himself simply because of the fact that there will always be a minority who is oppressed. What I like about this movie is the proposition it makes, not necessarily the facts it uses to come to that. The "facts" offered here are in a way something I have felt myself to be intrinsically true for a very long time. They just feel right. Letting a human grow up in a stabile and nurturing environment while stimulating and challenging him in numerous way can not but create a vastly different character than let's say for instance a human who spends his childhood being abused in one way or the other. This feels incredibly logical to me, and I can not understand why on earth things as money and power, two virtual concepts could have ever become so important to human kind that we lose track of what we are and thus of what we need, to be the best we can be. Basically it all comes down to the very simple saying of "don't do to others what you don't wish someone would do to you". The thing is that this is largely ignored by the most powerful people on this planet, in a very ridiculous way too.

 

In all this, political, religious or economic convictions tend to enhance this wrongdoing to the other. We need to let go of these. They are nothing but made-up quatsch that haven't helped mankind ever, especially in the long run.

[PRS]

MORE LIKE ***SHITE***GEIST LOL AMIRITE

 

i was like lol at first, but then i was like maybe your real opinion would be even better!!

[Lemmiwinks]

hmm

lets speak more generally

i think if you search closely at themes as Religion,Economy based lifestyle etc

a 5% is actual, real etc LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

so i dont give a damn about the conclusions without facts etc etc

the whole system is NOT based in facts,but in theories made by the existing powers(countries,religions etc) of each time

i dont care , i like the proposed theory of these films

so

for me its hilarious to speak about facts when there is no facts at our established civilisazion theory

at least the utopic conclusion of these films are better than our daily expierience

 

by the way could you tell us in which themes you found thin air (if you cant speak in facts i think your writings are under thin air,UNLESS if by your the above writings you want to ''force'' us to positive searching about these themes)

i bet

that you talk about the religion theory proposed by this film

 

well we have discussed this already to a pretty large extent in another topic

 

or, if you don't feel like scrolling through the 3 pages of discussion you can read these arguments who basically hit the nail on it's head on the whole Zietgeist thing and won't make you want to bother watching another minute of it:

zitgeist = crapgeist

[Rotwang]

i was like lol at first, but then i was like maybe your real opinion would be even better!!

 

I've only watched part of the first one, which was just repeating the same old claims that originated in The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviours, a work which AFAICT is viewed with almost universal derision among both religious and atheist historians (though being Christian, I'm obviously biased). I didn't care to watch the rest, which may be splendid for all I know.

[ma05683]

well we have discussed this already to a pretty large extent in another topic

 

or, if you don't feel like scrolling through the 3 pages of discussion you can read these arguments who basically hit the nail on it's head on the whole Zietgeist thing and won't make you want to bother watching another minute of it:

zitgeist = crapgeist

 

i got your point

you said

 

''economy has predictable cycles of upturns and downturns and that they are linked to some fundamental cause''

fundamental??

 

''However, the part I don't like is the causality chain, basically claiming that a handfull of bankers carefully control the evolution of the economy to enslave us all.''

 

"look, do you prefer to live in the US or in North Korea?"

 

 

before a hour ago i had a similar conversation with a close friend of mine who studied at Uk and now works for Jp Morgan

he told me the same words

lol

this must be a knowledge provided at economy courses at universities around the world

 

my friend tell me

you prefer to live in Us or Sweden,Denmark etc??

US is the most problematic country in every term ,Korean also

so why u make such a question

are you fan of US life and the whole system this country represents???

your dilemma is just provocation

 

i will share your ideas with my friends (who are unemployeds now)

i will share your opinion about prediction etc etc with a illiterate civil road cleaner

i will share your ideas about the ''promised land'' US with a girl who left Russia for better living and now she is prostituting here in Greece

i will share your ideas with my girlfriend ,she is lost some money with the whole TECHNICALLLLLL crisis of Leaman etc etc

 

Economy gurus etc,traders etc etc YOU dont exist!!!

this is fundamental

try to accept this

YOU dont serve any social good

this is fundamental

for the most people around the world your economic theories is just ''mumbo jumbo'' stuff and uselless too

this fundamental

you are just sellers

this is fundamental

and your time is over

THIS IS FUNDAMENTAL

 

Lemmiwinks i would enjoy a dialogue with you but unfortunately my english is not good for such conversation

i think its a good time to visit Greece to see how ''predictable'' is the situation

dont take anything personal

take it as argument behind two close friends (as i did with my friend,imagine, there was moments too close to fight each other lolll THATS SCARES ME)

 

aaa

yous told something about MORAL PATH

in which term i must translate this ??

in Cristianity term

or in the

Ancient Greek philosophy term

i really want to know your opinion

and as another friend spoke

religion and morality are not same

[Time_Trap]

Oh you are greek too ? I thought you were belgian for some reason hehe ...

[@reyu]

Thanx for posting this Ironsun. I had heard of the Zeitgeist films but never came around to actually watch them. I've seen the one you posted last weekend. The first half told me nothing I didn't know already, and I mean the basic thought that economics is a game, not a science, and that it only serves the wealthy and is being manipulated by bankers and corporations. I simply don't trust this corrupt system which gives you a false notion of freedom, period. It is corrupt as f*ck and should be dealt with as soon as possible. This Capitalistic system is just simply a transition to something better just like communism, fascism, dictatorships, etc was. Why? Because the Earth we are all living in and depending on is being treated like a whore we can use and abuse whenever we feel like it. All in the name of profit.

 

The second part about how to reorganise the planet's system in a resource-based economy was interesting and something that actually made sense, unlike all the aformentioned systems. It's a good idea to start with. Now the only thing we need is for the brainwashed to wake the f*ck up before it's too late. But I'm afraid it has to crash first, well infact, it did 2 years ago. The big banks in countless countries begged for money and all the governments paid, meaning, WE PAID to save THEIR ASSES. Beyond comprehension!

 

Big Finance Is a Monster That's Consuming Our Economic Security

[ma05683]

Thanx for posting this Ironsun. I had heard of the Zeitgeist films but never came around to actually watch them. I've seen the one you posted last weekend. The first half told me nothing I didn't know already, and I mean the basic thought that economics is a game, not a science, and that it only serves the wealthy and is being manipulated by bankers and corporations. I simply don't trust this corrupt system which gives you a false notion of freedom, period. It is corrupt as f*ck and should be dealt with as soon as possible. This Capitalistic system is just simply a transition to something better just like communism, fascism, dictatorships, etc was. Why? Because the Earth we are all living in and depending on is being treated like a whore we can use and abuse whenever we feel like it. All in the name of profit.

 

The second part about how to reorganise the planet's system in a resource-based economy was interesting and something that actually made sense, unlike all the aformentioned systems. It's a good idea to start with. Now the only thing we need is for the brainwashed to wake the f*ck up before it's too late. But I'm afraid it has to crash first, well infact, it did 2 years ago. The big banks in countless countries begged for money and all the governments paid, meaning, WE PAID to save THEIR ASSES. Beyond comprehension!

 

Big Finance Is a Monster That's Consuming Our Economic Security

 

+100000000000000000000

[Lemmiwinks]

i got your point

you said

 

''economy has predictable cycles of upturns and downturns and that they are linked to some fundamental cause''

fundamental??

 

''However, the part I don't like is the causality chain, basically claiming that a handfull of bankers carefully control the evolution of the economy to enslave us all.''

 

"look, do you prefer to live in the US or in North Korea?"

 

 

before a hour ago i had a similar conversation with a close friend of mine who studied at Uk and now works for Jp Morgan

he told me the same words

lol

this must be a knowledge provided at economy courses at universities around the world

 

my friend tell me

you prefer to live in Us or Sweden,Denmark etc??

US is the most problematic country in every term ,Korean also

so why u make such a question

are you fan of US life and the whole system this country represents???

your dilemma is just provocation

 

i will share your ideas with my friends (who are unemployeds now)

i will share your opinion about prediction etc etc with a illiterate civil road cleaner

i will share your ideas about the ''promised land'' US with a girl who left Russia for better living and now she is prostituting here in Greece

i will share your ideas with my girlfriend ,she is lost some money with the whole TECHNICALLLLLL crisis of Leaman etc etc

 

Economy gurus etc,traders etc etc YOU dont exist!!!

this is fundamental

try to accept this

YOU dont serve any social good

this is fundamental

for the most people around the world your economic theories is just ''mumbo jumbo'' stuff and uselless too

this fundamental

you are just sellers

this is fundamental

and your time is over

THIS IS FUNDAMENTAL

 

Lemmiwinks i would enjoy a dialogue with you but unfortunately my english is not good for such conversation

i think its a good time to visit Greece to see how ''predictable'' is the situation

dont take anything personal

take it as argument behind two close friends (as i did with my friend,imagine, there was moments too close to fight each other lolll THATS SCARES ME)

 

aaa

yous told something about MORAL PATH

in which term i must translate this ??

in Cristianity term

or in the

Ancient Greek philosophy term

i really want to know your opinion

and as another friend spoke

religion and morality are not same

 

 

LOL mate you are so far deep into your hippie alter-mondialist speech that I don't think any rational conversation would be possible with you. Don't you think that it's time to grow up and accept responsibilities as an adult rather than start crying and saying it's all "their" fault? I can't imagine how someone with a rational mind could even seriously consider the possibility that everything that's going bad in the world is solely the responsability of a handfull of greedy capitalists who wake up every day and wonder what can they do to make a few more millions while making some poor souls even more misrable than they are. (Reality check: Mr Burns is NOT real! lol)

 

So please mate, try learning some economics 101 instead of wasting your time watching conspiratist crap like Zietgeist, believe me in the long term it would be MUCH more beneficial to you

[Time_Trap]

LOL mate you are so far deep into your hippie alter-mondialist speech that I don't think any rational conversation would be possible with you.

Or maybe you are far deep into your yuppie pro-capitlaism speech ?

[@reyu]

(Reality check: Mr Burns is NOT real! lol)

 

No, he's not real????? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! hehe

 

But what a great metaphor! *wink wink*

 

But who is this conspiracy-theorist, the Anti-Christ of the KKKapitalistic system, the New Age hippy bullshitter, Peter Joseph.

 

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw9IHJNB75E

[ma05683]

So please mate, try learning some economics 101 instead of wasting your time watching conspiratist crap like Zietgeist, believe me in the long term it would be MUCH more beneficial to you

 

thanks for your advise

LOLLL

learn economics ??? for what?? lol

look mate i studied all my life Mathematics and in this space there is no much space for this economic bullshit

MY ADVISE is to start courses in ELEMENTAL maths (not advance ,these are for economics gurus lollllll) Euklidian geometry stuff ,or better try to read Platon,u know stuff about MAthematics filosophy etc

try to read Poetry,literature,there are many monsters of literature out there

these courses will help you too

cancel your subscription at economy magazines ,newspaper,close the tv

take a walk outside ,look peoples faces

or maybe and these people are not taking the responsibilities as adults lollllllllll

 

now

from where u made exclusion that i'am Zeitegeist fan??

because i said that i like the proposed theory???

maybe i said that because i see the nowdays system is going to nowhere,maybe because i'm still open to new ideas,maybe because im ANARCHO-HIPIE loll

maybe my ignorance at economics makes me think childish LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

there is a space inside your brain to think that MAYBE im sceptist too

 

but you are not Zeitegeist sceptist u are just FAN of todays established capitalism system(NOTICE i talk about the 2 last decades system)

you want to see facts ,to aprove something

look around you to see the facts of our modern life system LOOKK,its out there

after that come and told us genious dilema's (your hilarious provocation dilema USA or Korea is result of your advance courses at eco???)

there is no conspiracy

conspiracies dont leave facts

its out there ,look your neighboors face

these are the facts

or maybe not??

or maybe these are FUNDAMENTAL parts of life too,and propably PREDICTABLE lol

 

when a boy grauadeted from City takes as bonus the half(or more)of the annual payment of a Teacher then there is something wrong

propably you are fan of this system (best case)

propably you are fan of theory,(worst case)

''hmm the system has fundamanetal errors hmm we made faults in the past,but we will solve these INSIDE this system''

what a joke

the same bulshits that politician here in Greece told,''yes we made mistakes but WE will solve this under our Current system,TRUST us again,do u want another system???,dont you like our democratic system??,dont you like our free market system??''

all the time people are against a dilema

forced to fear under such dilemas

dilemas like you done

''USA or Korea????''

 

WHEN i and others will accept our repsonsibilities as adults THEN will be THE BIG JOKE day :):) THENNNNNNNNNNNNNN

ooo you yupie boys

you have to see that day lolllllllllllllll

 

you asked to read this

http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/conclusion/

under title zeitgeist=crapgeist

WHO THE FUCK is Edward L Winston

help me pls

propably you have some facts about him

i googled him but no presence at all ,only at conspiracies.skepticproject.com (really scientific work LOLLLLLL)

maybe this is a fact???

''my name is Edward L Winston, I am a 20-something software engineer with an affinity for astronomy, history, politics, and crazy theories. While I do have a college education, it was not at Yale or anything like that, just some community college."

 

is the same guy who made the conclusion at the link u provide??

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

 

now im living

i must joke with my uneployment Hipie brother

 

DEDICATED to all yuppie pro-capitlaism creatures out there

[djmaxfactor1995]

was MASSIVELY dissapointed by the first one, I mean it might seem impressive at first view but the more you check the background the more you realize that the "revelations" are just theories made out of thin air with probably 10% actual facts behind. AFAIK the 2nd one was a bit more factual... hmmm say 20% lol So anyway, I'm not really inclined to see the 3rd unless it starts by admitting that jumping to conclusions without facts is not information at all.

 

I think he did a good job with the first one. I don't think it could have been more "scientific." I think that it challenged the collective unconscious. It made people think. Plus, we are talking about mythological constructs. But, I do agree that an essay should be structured with a hypothesis and then supporting evidence. So, if you have been lacking that, this Zeitgeist overflows with supporting evidence and empirical data and expert testimony. It is really good, and really fucking scary. WE ARE FUCKED!

[djmaxfactor1995]

or, if you don't feel like scrolling through the 3 pages of discussion you can read these arguments who basically hit the nail on it's head on the whole Zietgeist thing and won't make you want to bother watching another minute of it:

zitgeist = crapgeist

 

Do you even know what "Zeitgeist" means? I see from all the red squiggly underlines that you don't know how to spell it. But, I digress. Are you a college freshman? You can't be that naive. What is it that bothers you so much? Is this your denial phase? This movie is not some fortune cookie. This is really happening and, depending on our lifespan, will be our nightmare. This is not conspiracy, fantasy, or exaggeration. And if you watch the movie, the blame is put solely on all of us, not just a few. We are all equally responsible. However, the ones with the most money, can do the most change. That is why we need everyone. Human life is invaluable, money is worthless. I know this is scary shit, and I wish it were a big hoax. But, either it goes or we go.

P.S. American Dream? That is makes me LMAO.

[Lemmiwinks]

thanks for your advise

LOLLL

learn economics ??? for what?? lol

look mate i studied all my life Mathematics and in this space there is no much space for this economic bullshit

MY ADVISE is to start courses in ELEMENTAL maths (not advance ,these are for economics gurus lollllll) Euklidian geometry stuff ,or better try to read Platon,u know stuff about MAthematics filosophy etc

try to read Poetry,literature,there are many monsters of literature out there

these courses will help you too

cancel your subscription at economy magazines ,newspaper,close the tv

take a walk outside ,look peoples faces

or maybe and these people are not taking the responsibilities as adults lollllllllll

 

now

from where u made exclusion that i'am Zeitegeist fan??

because i said that i like the proposed theory???

maybe i said that because i see the nowdays system is going to nowhere,maybe because i'm still open to new ideas,maybe because im ANARCHO-HIPIE loll

maybe my ignorance at economics makes me think childish LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

there is a space inside your brain to think that MAYBE im sceptist too

 

but you are not Zeitegeist sceptist u are just FAN of todays established capitalism system(NOTICE i talk about the 2 last decades system)

you want to see facts ,to aprove something

look around you to see the facts of our modern life system LOOKK,its out there

after that come and told us genious dilema's (your hilarious provocation dilema USA or Korea is result of your advance courses at eco???)

there is no conspiracy

conspiracies dont leave facts

its out there ,look your neighboors face

these are the facts

or maybe not??

or maybe these are FUNDAMENTAL parts of life too,and propably PREDICTABLE lol

 

when a boy grauadeted from City takes as bonus the half(or more)of the annual payment of a Teacher then there is something wrong

propably you are fan of this system (best case)

propably you are fan of theory,(worst case)

''hmm the system has fundamanetal errors hmm we made faults in the past,but we will solve these INSIDE this system''

what a joke

the same bulshits that politician here in Greece told,''yes we made mistakes but WE will solve this under our Current system,TRUST us again,do u want another system???,dont you like our democratic system??,dont you like our free market system??''

all the time people are against a dilema

forced to fear under such dilemas

dilemas like you done

''USA or Korea????''

 

WHEN i and others will accept our repsonsibilities as adults THEN will be THE BIG JOKE day :):) THENNNNNNNNNNNNNN

ooo you yupie boys

you have to see that day lolllllllllllllll

 

you asked to read this

http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/conclusion/

under title zeitgeist=crapgeist

WHO THE FUCK is Edward L Winston

help me pls

propably you have some facts about him

i googled him but no presence at all ,only at conspiracies.skepticproject.com (really scientific work LOLLLLLL)

maybe this is a fact???

''my name is Edward L Winston, I am a 20-something software engineer with an affinity for astronomy, history, politics, and crazy theories. While I do have a college education, it was not at Yale or anything like that, just some community college."

 

is the same guy who made the conclusion at the link u provide??

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

 

now im living

i must joke with my uneployment Hipie brother

 

DEDICATED to all yuppie pro-capitlaism creatures out there

 

 

hmm ok maybe my message will go better if I used an analogy: imagine you just bought a new Mercedes, you drive it for a while and are happy until one day the engine just won't start. A guy just passes by at that moment and tells you that Mr Mercedes is a greedy bastard that made the car not start after a while to force you to buy a new one, that way you spend all your hard-earned cash to make him even richer. You spend your time throwing your fist in the air and cursing Mr Mercedes for beeing such a greedy bastard and are still left without a car... OR you start learning how cars work in the first place, suddenly you realize that your engine not starting that morning simply because the spark plugs need replacement so all you have to do is get some new ones for 20€ and the problem is fixed, you get in your car and drive away, realize your mistake of not changing your spark plugs on time and take care not to do the same mistake twice.

My point being that there ARE solutions out there, other than saying "we are fucked" and so on, but it takes time and effort to learn how things actually work so it's much more easy just to pop a DVD in your player and watch a 1hour movie that pretends to give you THE answers. "Capitalism is dead, now it's time to find a new way." type of arguments have been around for centuries (anyone even bothered to read Marx around here?) yet surprisingly everywhere in the World were such "new ways" were implemented by the people were total faliures... so, call me a yuppie working long hours to be a slave of the "system", as long as someone doesn't show me an alternative system that WORKS in real life (not just idealists gathering around a joint speaking of how things should be) then I'll keep to my way of life thank you

[ma05683]

hmm ok maybe my message will go better if I used an analogy: imagine you just bought a new Mercedes, you drive it for a while and are happy until one day the engine just won't start. A guy just passes by at that moment and tells you that Mr Mercedes is a greedy bastard that made the car not start after a while to force you to buy a new one, that way you spend all your hard-earned cash to make him even richer. You spend your time throwing your fist in the air and cursing Mr Mercedes for beeing such a greedy bastard and are still left without a car... OR you start learning how cars work in the first place, suddenly you realize that your engine not starting that morning simply because the spark plugs need replacement so all you have to do is get some new ones for 20€ and the problem is fixed, you get in your car and drive away, realize your mistake of not changing your spark plugs on time and take care not to do the same mistake twice.

My point being that there ARE solutions out there, other than saying "we are fucked" and so on, but it takes time and effort to learn how things actually work so it's much more easy just to pop a DVD in your player and watch a 1hour movie that pretends to give you THE answers. "Capitalism is dead, now it's time to find a new way." type of arguments have been around for centuries (anyone even bothered to read Marx around here?) yet surprisingly everywhere in the World were such "new ways" were implemented by the people were total faliures... so, call me a yuppie working long hours to be a slave of the "system", as long as someone doesn't show me an alternative system that WORKS in real life (not just idealists gathering around a joint speaking of how things should be) then I'll keep to my way of life thank you

 

of course there are Solutions out there

not exactly sollutions i think, but just ways to cover the bad things for a short period of time(u r economic friendly mind so i must notice to you that only where there is no hard control of the markets everything GOES well,the numbers going up and everybody are satisfied,for a short time )

after this short period of BOOMMMMMMMMM again

and then conversations like our take places in such forums

lets see how will work the sollutions of EU and Obama took

im waiting:)

have a good day