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Protoculture played by... Armin Van Buuren


Lemmiwinks

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I don't see the psy-trance scene being more "commercial" now compared to that of say 5-8 years ago (in general), but of course some artist producing psy-trance related music has become more "commercial", moving in new directions or how ever it happens and nothing new in that, and no harm in that either, each to their own! As for the scene in general the movement to the more "commercial" or "clubby" sound happened many years back, well in the bigging of the '00 if you ask me (not regarding the mid-90'ties as mentioned earlier which is a totally different discussion imo), but I would more call that for a division in the scene that once was to something new...some going more clubby while others were going the opposite direction.

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Ahem ... can anybody enlight me what "Alien Jesus" has to do with Protoculture & Armin Van Buuren? Other than nothing that is...

 

Apart from that:

I have dug up that Protoculture track "Early Bird" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEbMwlv26fE) because Lemmi's video is down.

But what I hear is actually quite awful to me, I must say. My opinion.

What is this? This has nothing to do with Psytrance at all.

Actually it wouldn't even belong on this forum if Protoculture had not made it...

"The new low" ... well, if it's PSYtrance you wanna talk about here, then that would fit, however, that is not PSYtrance...

 

Hey, Protoculture (when you're reading this), can I ask why you didn't choose another alias? Would have been way more logical.

This way it's just confusing. In both ways, to and fro. What's with the people that like the one style and not the other, vice versa?

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Hey, Protoculture (when you're reading this), can I ask why you didn't choose another alias? Would have been way more logical.

This way it's just confusing. In both ways, to and fro. What's with the people that like the one style and not the other, vice versa?

 

What of them? Artists change direction all the time, in fact the ones that don't get accused of stagnating. Why should they have to constantly change their names just to avoid offending people who don't like their new direction? It's not as if there's a need to blindly buy an artist's new work on the basis of the name, all the online shops have track samples for a reason.

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The opposition of two extremes...

 

Things don't change... mentality neither. Like with any other case when we have two camps, two different parts in a competition, there seems to be no excuse when it comes to attempts of reconciliation.

 

It's been a mystery for me for years — why it isn't possible to perform a synthesis and try to follow both streams.

 

For many years I've been into both, mainstream and underground scenes and figured that these markers are extremely RELATIVE. There's a whole lot of examples of deep, profound, dark and intelligent trance in the mainstream scene (the type of music I'm into), as well as equal amount of flagrant trash in the so-called underground. When you have a clear vision of what you're finding fascinating in music, you can always recognize it anywhere, completely regardless of the genre.

 

What I'm finding sad in current situation is complete inflexibility when it comes to overseeing two scenes. Those who are into mainstream trance tend to never find their bearings in psytrance music, and the latter insist that the so-called mainstream trance is garbage by definition.

For years I've been a member of numerous communities that specialize in both, mainstream and underground movements (from Trance.nu (R.I.P.) to Psyreactor) and I haven't yet found a person who could equally appreciate regular and psychedelic trance, following both of them to equal extent and giving each its credit. I'm still asking myself: "why?". And I don't have any other answer, other than overly stereotypic way of thinking.

 

From the conviction that I've got, it's not about particular genre, but about particular mood, vibrations and "message" which can be found in music. It's not something so strictly attributed to "psytrance" or "epic trance". It's what can be found in both if you're a conscientious searcher.

 

Here we have a situation of crossing. And instead of re-considering it from the point of possible connection, people criticize it for getting out of control, when in fact it's a dim light of possible solution. Sad thing.

 

Not much can be said really... Expand your mind.

 

I really dig hexfires' comment on this. I prefer to listen and party to Goa/psytrance but I can really appreciate a good trance track, even with vocals. The same with other genres of music, as much as I love psytrance and psychill, I cannot listen to it the whole time. I stopped using the connotation "commercial" too because it just don't make sense to me. It's good or bad, period, you don't need to get all worked up on it.

 

Edit: Ormion is probably gonna post that I'm wrong, aren't you :lol:

 

Edit 2: I did read your post Mr Nate, you and only you make the decision which way to go artisticly and no one else. Respect! You just cannot please everyone.

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But what I hear is actually quite awful to me, I must say. My opinion.

What is this? This has nothing to do with Psytrance at all.

Actually it wouldn't even belong on this forum if Protoculture had not made it...

"The new low" ... well, if it's PSYtrance you wanna talk about here, then that would fit, however, that is not PSYtrance...

 

Hey, Protoculture (when you're reading this), can I ask why you didn't choose another alias? Would have been way more logical.

This way it's just confusing. In both ways, to and fro. What's with the people that like the one style and not the other, vice versa?

 

and you think anyone gives a shit about your opinion? seriously... why didn't you do this, why didn't you do that, this is not psytrance... blablablablablbalbala.... leave the dude alone and let him do what he wants, he has been nothing but respectful here and you dictate to him what he should do or should have done, your a fucking moron man... go get laid or drunk it looks like you need it...

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Ahem ... can anybody enlight me what "Alien Jesus" has to do with Protoculture & Armin Van Buuren? Other than nothing that is...

 

Apart from that:

I have dug up that Protoculture track "Early Bird" because Lemmi's video is down.

But what I hear is actually quite awful to me, I must say. My opinion.

What is this? This has nothing to do with Psytrance at all.

Actually it wouldn't even belong on this forum if Protoculture had not made it...

"The new low" ... well, if it's PSYtrance you wanna talk about here, then that would fit, however, that is not PSYtrance...

 

Hey, Protoculture (when you're reading this), can I ask why you didn't choose another alias? Would have been way more logical.

This way it's just confusing. In both ways, to and fro. What's with the people that like the one style and not the other, vice versa?

 

Ha ha... ok here we go again ;)

 

"What is this? This has nothing to do with Psytrance at all."

 

Who says it has anything to do with psytrance? I just posted that I'm not really into psytrance anymore... this may be a "psy" forum, but I gues this does have something to do with me since the thread's name is "'Protoculture' played by Armin..."

 

'Hey, Protoculture (when you're reading this), can I ask why you didn't choose another alias?"

 

Why should ditch a brand which I spent 10 hard years building up from nothing? Protoculture is MY thing, My own little genre, MY means of expressing myself... it doesn't belong to you guys, the psy trance scene or anyone else. The reason I never changed the name is because i feel I never changed the essence of what me and my music were about. Its still uplifting, cheesy to some of you Im sure, happy music that I write from the bottom of my heart... its just slower now and being marketed to a crowd who actually appreciate it for what it is. Don't get me wrong, I've always loved the psy scene, but I'm moving on to new things now and I don't feel I should be expected to leave my hard work behind in a scene that I'm not interested in anymore.

 

I'm always amazed how... particularly in the psy trance scene (suppose cause thats where I've had the most experience), you people (I'm generalizing so please don't automatically take offense) think everything belongs to you because you've been to a few parties? Funny, its always the people who put the hardest work into the scene that have the utmost respect for everything and everyone else... and completely the opposite from the people who just hang around forums and complain about shit they're not willing to do anything about. I've had this conversation countless times before... and I think I say this for all the artists that take flack for trying to evolve or do their own thing. We don't owe you anything... we're not in this to make the minority of critics happy... and if you don't like it, the simplest and most logical thing is to not listen. Forget about it, go out and make your own tracks the way you think they should be, go out and throw a party and book the artists you wanna book.

 

@Procyon "but because his sounds never were part of OUR world. At least that fits me: I think he made mediocre psy trance before, now he makes mediocre euro trance. That's it"

 

Dude, I respect your opinion about my work... you're entitled to that and it doesn't offend me in the slightest...

However... I've definitely been a part of "your" world for the last 10 years. I've played on every continent at some of the biggest psy trance events around the world consistently for the last 10 years. My problem with your comment is a classic case of "psytrance forum" mentality... you think psytrance has to fit perfectly into your description of it! Maybe you're into darker, more psychedelic stuff, so automatically you think everything thats more melodic and uplifting gets disqualified as part of "your" world? Correct me if I misunderstood you, but thats a seriously narrow minded outlook. "Your world"? Last time I checked we were all living on the same planet, all created equal, no? Don't mean to sound cocky but it bugs me sometimes when people that come from a scene that claims to be based on freedom, love, acceptance and unity, can be so intolerant, arrogant and defensive. Sorry if that came across a bit harsh... not trying to have a dig at you personally ;)

 

Anyways, I'll stop there. I'm not trying to start another 50 page battle of the genres ;) If I didn't make myself clear enough in my first post... what I'm trying to say is I'm on my own path. Just trying to stay honest with myself and do what I love. Whether that falls into "psy" or whatever, I honestly couldn't care less. I owe it to myself and the fans who do appreciate the music to just follow my heart. Thanks to those of you here who actually GET it...

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@ Protoculture: no offense at all. Because we're talking about work and not about personalities.

 

Perhaps my wording was not clear, because it was short. What I meant is that you are one of the best images of 1990's psytrance: not psychedelic at all. I don't blame you, you're a product of the environment you're inserted in, and at the same time your work fed that same environment. How could you try to cause a vortex with your sounds, when you had to play with the likes of Eskimo, Wrecked Machines - artists that write for the same crowd that danced to, say, Britney Spears?

 

That is why I mentioned OUR world: the world of psychedelic, the true one - where your sound didn't mesh with at all. You see, we talk about the original stuff and its more modern ramification. However I am sure you are a huge success among other kind of psychedelic trancers, the same kind that paid to see your live act - and honestly they're a world apart from us (at least from me and the guys I know).

 

So, sorry for my honesty. But you, as an artists should be ready to hear negative responses to your work, just like a writer does. I am sure you're talented, but your work just reflected what was expected from you, not your full loaded creativity.

 

If you had done real psychedelic trance, you wouldn't be the subject of this thread: a new bottom of the well of psychedelic trance. Sorry mate. I repeat you must be a nice guy, but 1990's was horrible for psy trance and you helped keeping it so.

 

Well, I do wish you success. My words are not intented to hurt you, I didn't pick the words, neither wrote them carefully. It is just the way I feel when I try to watch youtube videos featuring you alive: 1990's trance killed psychedelism.

 

 

By the way: your tracks sounds better in a gatecrasher trance club than in a psy festival: it's the ambient.

 

Please don't take offense.

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@Procyon: AFAICT Protoculture did not release any music during the 1990's.

 

@Protoculture: please bear in mind that Procyon, despite his repeated use of the first person plural, does not speak for the rest of psynews.

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@ Protoculture: no offense at all. Because we're talking about work and not about personalities.

 

Perhaps my wording was not clear, because it was short. What I meant is that you are one of the best images of 1990's psytrance: not psychedelic at all. I don't blame you, you're a product of the environment you're inserted in, and at the same time your work fed that same environment. How could you try to cause a vortex with your sounds, when you had to play with the likes of Eskimo, Wrecked Machines - artists that write for the same crowd that danced to, say, Britney Spears?

 

That is why I mentioned OUR world: the world of psychedelic, the true one - where your sound didn't mesh with at all. You see, we talk about the original stuff and its more modern ramification. However I am sure you are a huge success among other kind of psychedelic trancers, the same kind that paid to see your live act - and honestly they're a world apart from us (at least from me and the guys I know).

 

So, sorry for my honesty. But you, as an artists should be ready to hear negative responses to your work, just like a writer does. I am sure you're talented, but your work just reflected what was expected from you, not your full loaded creativity.

 

If you had done real psychedelic trance, you wouldn't be the subject of this thread: a new bottom of the well of psychedelic trance. Sorry mate. I repeat you must be a nice guy, but 1990's was horrible for psy trance and you helped keeping it so.

 

Well, I do wish you success. My words are not intented to hurt you, I didn't pick the words, neither wrote them carefully. It is just the way I feel when I try to watch youtube videos featuring you alive: 1990's trance killed psychedelism.

 

 

By the way: your tracks sounds better in a gatecrasher trance club than in a psy festival: it's the ambient.

 

Please don't take offense.

 

Hey buddy...

 

I don't take offense. Honestly, and as an Artist, trust me bro, I'm use to taking criticism. This is a conversation, not a rant. I'm interested in both sides. I'm kinda confused though...

 

"I don't blame you, you're a product of the environment you're inserted"

 

So the reason people think my music is not necessarily psy is because I play with guys like Eskimo and Wrecked Machines? Thats a silly statement bro... I've played parties with Kindzaza, Kashyyyk, Azax Syndrome (good mate of mine I might add) and various other artists not like me on the line up as well and my music didn't suddenly become "dark psy" for example...

 

"I am sure you're talented, but your work just reflected what was expected from you, not your full loaded creativity."

 

Ha ha, thats kinda insulting but anyways. So because I don't make your kinda "true" "real" "psychedelic" music I automatically haven't reached my full potential? Bro you're kinda proving my point with that statement that a lot of people in the psy scene are ignorant and arrogant. Who are you to say that I'm just doing what's expected of me? Jesus, the more I read that line the more blown away I am by how ridiculous a statement that is. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you again, please if anyone else is getting the same from that line let me know... but dude, what you're essentially saying is that because "you" don't like what I'm doing, its shit and I'm not doing my best? Like I said, I'm used to criticism, trust me... I'm more offended by your ego though.

 

"I repeat you must be a nice guy, but 1990's was horrible for psy trance and you helped keeping it so."

 

Thanx for the nice manners... really. I respect the fact you're not resorting to the flat out disrespectful attitude most people adopt on forums these days... but seriously man, if the last 20 years have been so shit for the scene, why are you still here? Man, I would've bailed ages ago and stopped listening then and rather stuck with an ancient collection of goa and gabba techno from back in the day. Correct me if I'm wrong, but artists like Halucinogen are from the 90's (Twisted was 1995)... so maybe you're talking about from 2000 onwards? Even so, 10 years is a long time to sit around bitching about the state of the scene. This is a classic example of what I said in my previous post... if you don't like where the music's going... don't listen to it!

 

"real Psychedelic" "the true one"???

You can disagree with me on this... but Psychedelia is in the eye of the beholder my friend.

 

"your tracks sounds better in a gatecrasher trance club than in a psy festiva"

I'll take that as a compliment... funny though how I still get booked at loads of outdoor parties

 

Anyways, again... I don't know you personally and I'm not trying to insult you or start a fight, but I'm really taken aback by some of your comments. Not because its insulting to me but because I'm amazed at how people think this is the right attitude to have. I hope I'm not the only person here who feels this way...

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I'm glad Nate has found this thread and chose to comment here. I've bought his first album when it came out and liked it, it had some very emotional uplifting melodies. I even remember reading an interview with Nate about gettin signed to Nano. The label manager, I think his name is Ans, said that the sound of his demos was too trancey, not psychedelic enough. :ph34r:

 

Well, full circle I guess. I, for one, am not too happy about the way full on psy evolved these last years, but there's still stuff I can dig, in every subgenre...So I can understand Nates' sound shifting and I wish him all the best. I haven't heard any of his new stuff yet, but I will eventually, there's too much other stuff I gotta go through first. :D

 

"One world is enough for all of us"

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@ Protoculture: no offense at all. Because we're talking about work and not about personalities.

 

"1990's psytrance: not psychedelic at all"

 

"1990's was horrible for psy trance"

 

"1990's trance killed psychedelism"

 

sorry mate, but where did u take you history lessons..? ask to get your money back!

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Ha ha... ok here we go again ;)

 

"What is this? This has nothing to do with Psytrance at all."

 

Who says it has anything to do with psytrance? I just posted that I'm not really into psytrance anymore... this may be a "psy" forum, but I gues this does have something to do with me since the thread's name is "'Protoculture' played by Armin..."

 

'Hey, Protoculture (when you're reading this), can I ask why you didn't choose another alias?"

 

Why should ditch a brand which I spent 10 hard years building up from nothing? Protoculture is MY thing, My own little genre, MY means of expressing myself... it doesn't belong to you guys, the psy trance scene or anyone else. The reason I never changed the name is because i feel I never changed the essence of what me and my music were about. Its still uplifting, cheesy to some of you Im sure, happy music that I write from the bottom of my heart... its just slower now and being marketed to a crowd who actually appreciate it for what it is. Don't get me wrong, I've always loved the psy scene, but I'm moving on to new things now and I don't feel I should be expected to leave my hard work behind in a scene that I'm not interested in anymore.

 

I'm always amazed how... particularly in the psy trance scene (suppose cause thats where I've had the most experience), you people (I'm generalizing so please don't automatically take offense) think everything belongs to you because you've been to a few parties? Funny, its always the people who put the hardest work into the scene that have the utmost respect for everything and everyone else... and completely the opposite from the people who just hang around forums and complain about shit they're not willing to do anything about. I've had this conversation countless times before... and I think I say this for all the artists that take flack for trying to evolve or do their own thing. We don't owe you anything... we're not in this to make the minority of critics happy... and if you don't like it, the simplest and most logical thing is to not listen. Forget about it, go out and make your own tracks the way you think they should be, go out and throw a party and book the artists you wanna book.

 

@Procyon "but because his sounds never were part of OUR world. At least that fits me: I think he made mediocre psy trance before, now he makes mediocre euro trance. That's it"

 

Dude, I respect your opinion about my work... you're entitled to that and it doesn't offend me in the slightest...

However... I've definitely been a part of "your" world for the last 10 years. I've played on every continent at some of the biggest psy trance events around the world consistently for the last 10 years. My problem with your comment is a classic case of "psytrance forum" mentality... you think psytrance has to fit perfectly into your description of it! Maybe you're into darker, more psychedelic stuff, so automatically you think everything thats more melodic and uplifting gets disqualified as part of "your" world? Correct me if I misunderstood you, but thats a seriously narrow minded outlook. "Your world"? Last time I checked we were all living on the same planet, all created equal, no? Don't mean to sound cocky but it bugs me sometimes when people that come from a scene that claims to be based on freedom, love, acceptance and unity, can be so intolerant, arrogant and defensive. Sorry if that came across a bit harsh... not trying to have a dig at you personally ;)

 

Anyways, I'll stop there. I'm not trying to start another 50 page battle of the genres ;) If I didn't make myself clear enough in my first post... what I'm trying to say is I'm on my own path. Just trying to stay honest with myself and do what I love. Whether that falls into "psy" or whatever, I honestly couldn't care less. I owe it to myself and the fans who do appreciate the music to just follow my heart. Thanks to those of you here who actually GET it...

 

+10000000

 

I said it before, some people are so narrow minded and intolerant when it comes to music..

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@ Drosophila: my mistake, replace 1990's trance for 2000's. That's what one does writing in three sites at the same time. BTW, I was there, saw the first GNOR live act in Japan, threw parties etc etc...so, I know what I am talking about.

@ OOOD: you don't do that please, but I don't doubt your capacity to do cheesy stuff. Keep doing your good musci, will you? Thanks.

 

@ Protoculture: I could write a book, replying your answers to mine. No use at all. I made my point, no need to reinforce it.

 

Anyways, again... I don't know you personally and I'm not trying to insult you or start a fight, but I'm really taken aback by some of your comments. Not because its insulting to me but because I'm amazed at how people think this is the right attitude to have. I hope I'm not the only person here who feels this way...

Well, Proto, I wrote a book sometime ago. I was bashed by the critics. I thought it was the most creative stuff I ever wrote. However, unlike you, I took them seriously as a writer. Guess what, now, years after, I accept it wasn't that good. And if you read that book, and said in-my-face: man, your book was trash, I would say: you're right. The same way I take compliements when people say they loved the book and expect a sequel (which is taking me years to finish)...

So, I don't see why you are taken aback: if you do some sort of public work, man, be ready to receive flowers and bricks.

 

The same way you smiled at Rotwang's licking your balls, smile too when you read someone saying your work was not that good. And it wasn't at all. Again, take a look at the title of this topic: this must show you how many people disagree with your own opinion on your own music.

 

Last, take the gatecrash thing as a compliment, it's a good scene.

Yeah, you have been booked a lot , does it mean I should change my opinion?

 

I do hope your next release is great, and I come here appraising you. That's business man! Didn't you ever have a boss? <_<

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Hey Procyon, now that you've learned the difference between the 20th century and the 21st, see if you can figure out the difference between licking Protoculture's balls and pointing out that you're a fuckwit.

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@ OOOD: you don't do that please, but I don't doubt your capacity to do cheesy stuff. Keep doing your good musci, will you? Thanks.

 

I will make whatever music I want to make. You're welcome.

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OOOD: as long as I am free to say my opinion on your teen-pop trance release if I don't like it, you are welcome too.

 

Who said it would be anything to do with trance? I'm talking pure pop. :lol: I've already done a few things like this in the last few years, and will probably do more; although psytrance holds the biggest place in my heart I was a performing musician for 10 years before psy found me in 1994, and I never have - and never will - limit myself just to one genre.

 

The main point is though - you don't get to choose what I (or Protoculture) does, and it's your expectations that cause your disappointment, not our music.

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OOOD: I don't know about your pop career, wish you success.

 

I think it's funny your last paragraph: you mean, you never ever disliked someone's work? A book? A movie? Clothes? etc...?

 

Because, according to what you wrote, it's not the movie, the book, the clothes, that are not good. It's the taste and expectation of the one who buys, watches, wears it that is not well adjusted.

 

If you agree, then I envy you. It must be nice to live a life where everything is beautiful, nice, charming. No ugly stuff anywhere around.

 

Now, if you disagree, then can you elaborate your last line, please? Because, then, I and a thousand guys need to understand why "Alien Jesus", for instance, is a good work that was not decently appreciated by us.

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