Ormion Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 The irony is that a lot of the old school masters jumped on the Goa bandwagon way back when. Because of the nature of the music everyone wants to assign pure motives to Goa producers but that isn't always true. In any case a lot of the full-on guys have jumped ship for techno. And so the cycle continues. Yeah I agree with that. Quite possibly a lot of the old school artists produced Goa, cause Goa was hot back then. Then Full On became more popular and the artists jumped on it. And like Basilisk said the cycle continues. The real question IMO is: Who jumped on the full on backwagon first? The artists or the audience? Did some artists change their styles to full on, ppl liked it and everyone else followed or did artists change their styles to full on and ppl didn't complain? Wait! That's the same! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I find when the rolling bass line is higher pitched, I enjoy it less. Soooo true! I LOVE full on bass when is aggressive, liquid and low pitched. The israeli screaming bass though makes me wanna puke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Elysium how do you think, is it possible to say that one style album is easy to produce than in other style? It can be one of reasons. I do not think one genre is easier to make than another genre. As an example minimal is extremely hard to make because it contain less sounds that need much more attention to keep the listeners attention than a track where 50 sounds are going on. But at the end of the day it's all subject to the individual musician. What comes easy to me is not necessary something another artist find easy. Yeah I agree with that. Quite possibly a lot of the old school artists produced Goa, cause Goa was hot back then. Then Full On became more popular and the artists jumped on it. And like Basilisk said the cycle continues. The real question IMO is: Who jumped on the full on backwagon first? The artists or the audience? Did some artists change their styles to full on, ppl liked it and everyone else followed or did artists change their styles to full on and ppl didn't complain? Wait! That's the same! I am sure many artists picked up Goa because of its popularity. Especially later down the Road. But I can guarantee that many of the pioneers made the music out of pure passion for the music. It was a lifestyle as well. And I do not doubt that many into Full on do/did it out of love to the music. What I say, according to this debate, is that I know of quite a few old-school artists and Dj’s who in private will admit they do not really feel much passion toward full on but still produce/spin it because it gives them the gigs they need. I am sure many also switched to psytechno/full on techno (I won’t call it techno) because of the demand from the audience. And I bet some of these full on artist’s dont really fancy techno as much as they like full on. I will give you an example. Raja Ram He was the co-owner of TIP Records. A label that I personally think shaped the psytrance scene among a few other labels. Then it was closed down due to financial trouble and reopened as a semi full on label under the name T.I.P World. And later the cheese came out in full. And what happened to the crew that was among the psychedelic frontrunners when it came to spinning twisted psytrance as Dj’s? They suddenly switched to cheesy rolling Bassline full on overnight. Why? Well it's quite obvious to me at least. Without it they would not be able to travel the World anymore playing gigs. It is that simple! Let’s take Koxbox. Even though I am not a personal friend to Frank I know him from talks and partying with him too. And I know his love for twisted really deep psychedelic trance. Then he moves to Ibiza and gets more involved with the Full on cheese artists there. And what is the result? Koxbox meets Full on. No one will ever be able to make me believe he love those Basslines as he has always been a musician into experimental Basslines and full psychedelic landscapes in the music. He even told me (prior to his last album release) that the world would hear something new and that the full on era would be over with the coming of his new album. hmmmm sure! I could go on with so many other old-school artists/Dj’s and how they really do not fancy full on or even psytechno that much. But it would be a novel rather than a debate input. Of course it's up to each one of us to do whatever we like. No doubt about it! But can anyone really blame people from questioning their reasons? I mean I can understand why some people question my shift to other scenes when they do not know my history or my passion for example Techno and underground House as well as what’s called UK House. But there is a huge difference in making certain music because you love it or because you want to maintain a certain status in a scene. The easiest road for me would have been to follow all the other artists into the full on scene and been on a big stage pleasing a 50.000 people crowd in Mexico. It's not at all easy to break though in example the House scene or for that matter in the Techno scene. On the contrary it's much harder than breaking though in the psytrance/full on scene! My 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mader Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I have a question. When did the rolling bass line originate? What are the earliest tracks with a rolling bass line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karan129 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I have a question. When did the rolling bass line originate? What are the earliest tracks with a rolling bass line? Not sure if this is what you were looking for but I was pretty surprised by the bassline in Sandman - Tripulogic from '96. A fair number of goa tracks did have basslines but they just weren't overt. OT: I like fast,groovy,energetic fullon with lots of acid like CPU - CPU and Space Tribe - TTLG etc... and if artists who've made really good music want to make some money for a change, sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisBSF Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I have a question. When did the rolling bass line originate? What are the earliest tracks with a rolling bass line? Earliest I can recall is Erasure's "little respect", 1988 IIRC, the galloping variant. I'm sure they didn't "invent it" though. Music is as old as man. http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=x34icYC8zA0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qa2pir Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I have a question. When did the rolling bass line originate? What are the earliest tracks with a rolling bass line? Transwave - Malaka Dance from '96 is an early example. It has the very same snappy characteristics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Many Goa racks have rolling basslines. Too many to mention. But the group that put rolling basslines and full on in general in our lives were GMS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphythecat Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Because it's easy to make mostly, no effort, full response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphythecat Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I do not think one genre is easier to make than another genre. As an example minimal is extremely hard to make because it contain less sounds that need much more attention to keep the listeners attention than a track where 50 sounds are going on. But at the end of the day it's all subject to the individual musician. What comes easy to me is not necessary something another artist find easy. I am sure many artists picked up Goa because of its popularity. Especially later down the Road. But I can guarantee that many of the pioneers made the music out of pure passion for the music. It was a lifestyle as well. And I do not doubt that many into Full on do/did it out of love to the music. What I say, according to this debate, is that I know of quite a few old-school artists and Dj’s who in private will admit they do not really feel much passion toward full on but still produce/spin it because it gives them the gigs they need. I am sure many also switched to psytechno/full on techno (I won’t call it techno) because of the demand from the audience. And I bet some of these full on artist’s dont really fancy techno as much as they like full on. I will give you an example. Raja Ram He was the co-owner of TIP Records. A label that I personally think shaped the psytrance scene among a few other labels. Then it was closed down due to financial trouble and reopened as a semi full on label under the name T.I.P World. And later the cheese came out in full. And what happened to the crew that was among the psychedelic frontrunners when it came to spinning twisted psytrance as Dj’s? They suddenly switched to cheesy rolling Bassline full on overnight. Why? Well it's quite obvious to me at least. Without it they would not be able to travel the World anymore playing gigs. It is that simple! Let’s take Koxbox. Even though I am not a personal friend to Frank I know him from talks and partying with him too. And I know his love for twisted really deep psychedelic trance. Then he moves to Ibiza and gets more involved with the Full on cheese artists there. And what is the result? Koxbox meets Full on. No one will ever be able to make me believe he love those Basslines as he has always been a musician into experimental Basslines and full psychedelic landscapes in the music. He even told me (prior to his last album release) that the world would hear something new and that the full on era would be over with the coming of his new album. hmmmm sure! I could go on with so many other old-school artists/Dj’s and how they really do not fancy full on or even psytechno that much. But it would be a novel rather than a debate input. Of course it's up to each one of us to do whatever we like. No doubt about it! But can anyone really blame people from questioning their reasons? I mean I can understand why some people question my shift to other scenes when they do not know my history or my passion for example Techno and underground House as well as what’s called UK House. But there is a huge difference in making certain music because you love it or because you want to maintain a certain status in a scene. The easiest road for me would have been to follow all the other artists into the full on scene and been on a big stage pleasing a 50.000 people crowd in Mexico. It's not at all easy to break though in example the House scene or for that matter in the Techno scene. On the contrary it's much harder than breaking though in the psytrance/full on scene! My 2 cents. what album are you referring when you say that koxbox meets full-on?????? And Full-on is clearly less "hard", as subjective as it can be, to make then a real psy album, come on! With minimal, once you get the technique, which can be acquired much more easily then custom psy, which by the way, have no specific technic, well yeah, we can say that its "easier" to make. What, for you, full-on is as hard to make as a logic bomb or hallucinogen album? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphythecat Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I don't agree with the blanket assumption that somebody who changes to a more popular style must be doing so for purely commercial reasons. Popular styles get popular because people like them, it's hardly surprising that a lot of people who used to make Goa would like them too. the blanket assumption?!?! thats funny men. David Bowie admit that he released shitty music in the 80's, and he knew he was! WTF! Those "Popular" artist clearly know that they could do SO much better. Dj's make their tracks in 2-3 days MAXIMUM. Posford can takes up to a month or two to make one track. What else need to be said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sektor101 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 what album are you referring when you say that koxbox meets full-on?????? Koxbox - U-Turn (2006) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insejn Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Dj's make their tracks in 2-3 days MAXIMUM. Posford can takes up to a month or two to make one track. What else need to be said? That even a track made in a month can be shitty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 the blanket assumption?!?! thats funny men. David Bowie admit that he released shitty music in the 80's, and he knew he was! WTF! Those "Popular" artist clearly know that they could do SO much better. Dj's make their tracks in 2-3 days MAXIMUM. Posford can takes up to a month or two to make one track. What else need to be said? That no matter what thread it is, Simon will always make his appeareance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphythecat Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 koxbox u-turn is full-on? haha, euh.. thats your opinion. I think that raja ram might have a lot to do with the mastering. and a songs that takes 3 month toomake is not necessarily more good, but a lot more complicated to make, thats all. And if you say a obvious contre-argument, well shame on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 koxbox u-turn is full-on? haha, euh.. thats your opinion. No one said it's full on. But some of the tracks got a full on bass which ruins it totally for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veracohr Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Dj's make their tracks in 2-3 days MAXIMUM. Posford can takes up to a month or two to make one track. What else need to be said? and a songs that takes 3 month toomake is not necessarily more good, but a lot more complicated to make, thats all. And if you say a obvious contre-argument, well shame on you. You contradicted yourself. The first quote implies that taking longer to write a song results in a better song, which you refuted in the second quote. Creative people all work differently, and the speed at which they make their art does not necessarily relate to its quality (which is subjective anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elahW_B Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Creative people all work differently, and the speed at which they make their art does not necessarily relate to its quality (which is subjective anyway). But statistically there is a relationship between time spent and quality of result. If you want to say that certain people defy this general trend, then go for it, otherwise you're wasting everyone's time "debating" trivial points. Oh, and the quality of result is not as "subjective" as people like to think. We are all hearing close to the exact same thing (our ears and their workings are very similar). The difference arises somewhere in the mind. I'd guess intelligence, awareness, previous things we've heard account for most of the variation in why one person likes 1 thing and doesn't like another. This would be an infinitely more smart thing to discuss than argue about time taken to make a track BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Oh, and the quality of result is not as "subjective" as people like to think. We are all hearing close to the exact same thing (our ears and their workings are very similar). The difference arises somewhere in the mind. I'd guess intelligence, [...] FWIW, I know some very intelligent people who listen to utter shit - I'm talking about someone with a 1st from Oxford who likes Wham and Simply Red, for example. I happen to believe there's such a thing as objective quality in music, but nobody can unambiguously determine when something has it any more than one can unambiguously determine objective truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphythecat Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 You contradicted yourself. The first quote implies that taking longer to write a song results in a better song, which you refuted in the second quote. Creative people all work differently, and the speed at which they make their art does not necessarily relate to its quality (which is subjective anyway). yeah well, i just said that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphythecat Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 You contradicted yourself. The first quote implies that taking longer to write a song results in a better song, which you refuted in the second quote. Creative people all work differently, and the speed at which they make their art does not necessarily relate to its quality (which is subjective anyway). no no, you presume, i didnt said that its necessary a better song, only a more complex song, or at least, the artist that takes 3 month to make a songs think a lot more about his songs then a dj that do his songs in one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphythecat Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 But statistically there is a relationship between time spent and quality of result. If you want to say that certain people defy this general trend, then go for it, otherwise you're wasting everyone's time "debating" trivial points. Oh, and the quality of result is not as "subjective" as people like to think. We are all hearing close to the exact same thing (our ears and their workings are very similar). The difference arises somewhere in the mind. I'd guess intelligence, awareness, previous things we've heard account for most of the variation in why one person likes 1 thing and doesn't like another. This would be an infinitely more smart thing to discuss than argue about time taken to make a track BTW. haha, exaclty! why talk about obvious facts! God! but you really think that intelligence have something to do with taste? I think that what really counts, is what is our musical background. off-topic: someone need to explain me how to include in one post everything i just did in three, because i feel bad about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laserflip Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Press the multi quote button on the posts you want to quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insejn Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 no no, you presume, i didnt said that its necessary a better song, only a more complex song, or at least, the artist that takes 3 month to make a songs think a lot more about his songs then a dj that do his songs in one day. How can you say that? Maybe the artist get tired of the track, forgets about it, and open it up 1 month later to finish it. Doesn't have anything with complexity or how much an artist think about a track imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzman Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Why doesn't Ford produce the T-model anymore?? Simply because it's outdated and no one would ever buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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