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Some thoughts on people and music


TheJoker
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When it comes to all art, the majority of people always get drawn to what is familiar to them and what they can understand. That's why pop music, be it rock, rap, pop, electronica/ house with vocals etc. takes the dominant role when it comes to sales

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The "red thread" here is that most people HATE to listen to instrumental music. But why is that? I can't even count how many times I've been to a party and put on some psymusic or instrumental based electronica and people have said "when is the song going to start? Why are there no vocals?"

 

I've gone from the point of being irritated by this crave to have short, vocal oriented tracks to just being somewhat baffled. The majority of music I listen to is intruiging instrumental music with vocal parts/ samples here and there. Not that I don't enjoy a good vocal or pop track, but I don't limit myself to just listening to this.

 

Maybe this is why psytrance will never reach the mainstream (thank God for that). But I do find it quite an interesting phenomenon.

 

Take Infected Mushroom for example. The minute they started having more vocals in their tracks, the more popular they got. Also the influence of rock and roll got more people into them, which proves my point of people wanting more and more of what they already know.

 

Some people just seem frightened to open their minds and expand their horizon when it comes to art, especially music. And I think (to some degree) people are frightened of instrumental music like psytrance because it's so unfamiliar to them and demands something from the listener. You need to concentrate and let go off your prejudice to really get the beautifull stories that are told within these non vocal tracks.

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When it comes to all art, the majority of people always get drawn to what is familiar to them and what they can understand. That's why pop music, be it rock, rap, pop, electronica/ house with vocals etc. takes the dominant role when it comes to sales

.

The "red thread" here is that most people HATE to listen to instrumental music. But why is that? I can't even count how many times I've been to a party and put on some psymusic or instrumental based electronica and people have said "when is the song going to start? Why are there no vocals?"

 

I've gone from the point of being irritated by this crave to have short, vocal oriented tracks to just being somewhat baffled. The majority of music I listen to is intruiging instrumental music with vocal parts/ samples here and there. Not that I don't enjoy a good vocal or pop track, but I don't limit myself to just listening to this.

 

Maybe this is why psytrance will never reach the mainstream (thank God for that). But I do find it quite an interesting phenomenon.

 

Take Infected Mushroom for example. The minute they started having more vocals in their tracks, the more popular they got. Also the influence of rock and roll got more people into them, which proves my point of people wanting more and more of what they already know.

 

Some people just seem frightened to open their minds and expand their horizon when it comes to art, especially music. And I think (to some degree) people are frightened of instrumental music like psytrance because it's so unfamiliar to them and demands something from the listener. You need to concentrate and let go off your prejudice to really get the beautifull stories that are told within these non vocal tracks.

+1

 

Especially on "when is the song going to start? Why are there no vocals?" It's the mainstream moto. :lol:

I guess for them music/songs is only the one with vocals.

 

Personally I never cared about vocals and lyrics. If I like a pop or rock song is because of the music, the rhythm. I never pay attention to vocals. There are songs that I have listened thousands of times and still don't know what the lyrics say.

This is exactly why I hate hip hop. Only vocals, no music.

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Most people just listen to music, they can't crawl inside it, or keep focusing on a progressive track, they can't hear the little details that are constantly changing, they can't follow the story of the track (what story, there aren't any lyrics telling one? ).. Especially with progressive trance i hear people saying "it sounds the same all the way through?" It's not that they don't like it, it's just boring and wierd to them.....

 

If there aren't any lyrics or singing, there's nothing to draw the mainstream listeners attention.... Most people just don't get this kind of experience/journey from music as far as i can tell, and if I tell them to sit down for an hour and ONLY listen to the music without doing anything ells... Let the music get inside their heads... Really listen to the song, instead of just listening.. If i tell people that, they will just look wierd at me, not knowing what the fuck im talking about...

 

Another thing to remember here is simple TASTE ;) You can't blame people for not liking a track that sounds like it's from outa space, or an ambient track that goes on for 15 minutes without a single beat.

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Most people just listen to music, they can't crawl inside it, or keep focusing on a progressive track, they can't hear the little details that are constantly changing, they can't follow the story of the track (what story, there aren't any lyrics telling one? ).. Especially with progressive trance i hear people saying "it sounds the same all the way through?" It's not that they don't like it, it's just boring and wierd to them.....

 

If there aren't any lyrics or singing, there's nothing to draw the mainstream listeners attention.... Most people just don't get this kind of experience/journey from music as far as i can tell, and if I tell them to sit down for an hour and ONLY listen to the music without doing anything ells... Let the music get inside their heads... Really listen to the song, instead of just listening.. If i tell people that they will just look wierd at me, not knowing what the fuck im talking about...

 

Another thing to remember here is simple TASTE ;) You can't blame people for not liking a track that sounds like it's from outa space, or an ambient track that goes on for 15 minutes without a single beat.

 

I agree on all points as far as what taste goes. You should never place judgment on anyone when it comes to their taste in art, music, films etc.

 

If there is any point in my this thread is that some people seem to have a block in their minds that doesn't allow them to like art that is new to them. I bet if you would take a look into their cd collections, you wouldn't even find a trace of progression. This is the same people that think bands like: The Killers, Coldplay++ is breaking boundaries with music.

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The problem is, while we see music as art, most people do not. They see it as just a bit of fun. If you are not viewing music as art then there is almost no way you are going to enjoy instrumental music. Singing is fun! I know, I love karaoke & can sing my heart out for five hours straight but there are not many songs I sing that I would consider art (Bob Dylan and a few more only) most are shallow (fun) pop songs. I never buy such music though as I really can appreciate the art in a 60 minute track with no beats at all. Not many people appreciate art in music so fun shallow music is always going to be the mainstream.

 

One other point, does it annoy anyone else when people talk about psytrance songs? They're not bloody songs as there is no singing!!!

 

song

   /sɔŋ, sɒŋ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sawng, song]

–noun

1. a short metrical composition intended or adapted for singing, esp. one in rhymed stanzas; a lyric; a ballad.

2. a musical piece adapted for singing or simulating a piece to be sung: Mendelssohn's “Songs without Words.”

3. poetical composition; poetry.

4. the art or act of singing; vocal music.

5. something that is sung.

6. an elaborate vocal signal produced by an animal, as the distinctive sounds produced by certain birds, frogs, etc., in a courtship or territorial display.

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I agree on all points as far as what taste goes. You should never place judgment on anyone when it comes to their taste in art, music, films etc.

 

If there is any point in my this thread is that some people seem to have a block in their minds that doesn't allow them to like art that is new to them. I bet if you would take a look into their cd collections, you wouldn't even find a trace of progression. This is the same people that think bands like: The Killers, Coldplay++ is breaking boundaries with music.

hehe, yeah it's funny.. I love Coldplay when i want to hear something "normal" :)

 

But you are right, sometimes I get the feeling that people block it on purpose, like they don't want to "learn" to listen to anything ells than the ordinary..... But i guess people use music in a different way, like abasio said: it is art to us, but for others it's just fun.. Singing a well known song with your friend, or sing-along-songs at partys and stuff.. I listen to music daily, it help me to relax after a hard days work, it makes me happy when im feeling deep, hell, some music even feels subliminal, like it's healing every bad thought in my head... It makes me forget about "everyday-life" an just find myself inside myself... PSYCHEDELIC ;)

 

I think we are more openminded when it comes to music, and have learned to use music in a way that not many people do

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I think we are more openminded when it comes to music, and have learned to use music in a way that not many people do

I agree on everything you said, about our more open-minded when it comes to music taste, some people could not, in fact a lot of people could not listen to ambiant because they just dont get it, the reason is because some people even if they were trying they could not like it, other is just because they are lame and stick with what they know, I really dig electronica, cause i like to just hang out and do nothing and listen to the piece of art, but everyone, i know a couple a musician, rock or folk(by the way, just go take a look at myspace: THEBANJOCONSORSIUM its called folktronic, its pretty interesting) anyway, those musician(my father) can not stand the electronic sound, Some people like the fact that its a band, 5 guys being coordinated at the same and doing something pretty good, with real instrument all the way, I myself like more rock artist than electronic artist, i think that the same phenomenon with people liking to much electronic, you dont get anymore the genius talented guitar player like Hendrix, jimmy page, chris whitley just to name a few, I could even say that electronic is candy to the ears, but rock can be really sophisticated, with genius melodies like gentle giant(album octopus) or dave matthews band( album under the table and dreaming). Ill take radiohead, the voice of the guys really reach me, it reaches me and touches me like no electronica can, sometimes in rock, its when you concentrate on only the fuckin awsome voice, that you can start really liking the rest of the melodies, for electronica, its all the sound that you like to listen, its been 1-2 years that i give up a bit for electronica and start listen to a lot of rock, old rock, some grunge like soundgarden or alice in chains, like old rock like FRANK ZAPPA ( a genius that made 100 albums, but go tchek out the album apostrophe), or Genesis, Led zeppelin, king crimson, folk as joni mitchell, bon iver, the acorn, honestly some rock took me a lot of time to understand and start liking it, but with electronica, i love immediately a nice melody, its crystal clear and its uplifting lets say, wellfor some people and thats my point after all, is that even for you guys, you wont take the time to love rock, as other people doesnt take time to like electronica, i know is sad, cause me too sometimes i would like my friends to understaind my taste, but after-all, taste isnt what makes us unique?

 

Like right now, i dont get johnny cash, i know hes a genius but i dont get it, but i know one day i will, the problem with some people is that they dont even try, dont sit back and enjoy the whole album, the skip the songs, found it all the same, and give up, just like us for rock, its all the same, guitar drum bass vocals, its boring, its not psychadelics, anyways, i agree on everything you said, but theres a but, cause i think a lot of people here have prejudice on al the rock that has been done, and its a shame, cause rock make me feel as alive as a good ambient album will!

 

ps: by the way, if you like coldplay, it proves that you dont know a lot in rock, just like people who loves infected mushroom(there new album) doesnt know psychadelics!

go to metacritics.com it a good review rock site

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The "red thread" here is that most people HATE to listen to instrumental music. But why is that? I can't even count how many times I've been to a party and put on some psymusic or instrumental based electronica and people have said "when is the song going to start? Why are there no vocals?"

This is SO irritating. Whats even more irritating is that classical music like beethoven or Indian classical etc frequently has no vocals either. But does anyone go "Why do you listen to classical?" Hypocrisy I say.

 

The problem is, while we see music as art, most people do not. They see it as just a bit of fun.

Exactly. Also some people look for an identity in music, like in the lyrics, which expresses what they feel. Psy listeners don't want any of the lyric nonsense, we just want the perfect, trippy stuff :posford:

 

IMO synthesizers go beyond what the human voice can achieve. Besides, I don't think vocals can keep up with 140+ BPM. I do think the vocals on The Cranberries - Zombie are pretty trippy though.

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I agree to a pretty wide extent with the above. Historically, though, instrumental music has been the most successful I think. There is a huuuge heritage of classical music that cannot be disregarded (some singing, yes, but only in a smaller subset of genres). So, were people more openminded in the old days, or was it just that what was popular and "familiar" back then happened to have no singing? I don't know, but if the latter is the case, what changed?

 

- A

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The problem is, while we see music as art, most people do not. They see it as just a bit of fun.

+1

most of my friends listen to music when they are socializing, drinking and singing their asses off! and as buzzman said i'd get weird looks if i tell them that i just sit and listen to music. for them music is just a background noise (a pleasant one ofc) that would draw their attention for a moment, and what's better than vocals for a momentary attention?

 

by the way, if you like coldplay, it proves that you dont know a lot in rock, just like people who loves infected mushroom(there new album) doesnt know psychadelics!

+100 :ph34r:
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Go listen to some experimental modern orchestral music or drone. Psy trance is hardly challenging compared to this stuff. This judgmental attitude doesn't take you anywhere but to an imaginary pedestal where you can pretend you know better.

 

Taste!

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Yesterday I was playing some Eat Static and some guy exclaimed 'You'd have to be fucked to listen to this'. He didn't mean it in a nasty way or anything, just sortof trying to find kinship in drug use, but it really, really annoys me when people do that. Perhaps even more so than the previous example where people complain that the 'song' hasn't started yet (though I get that one a lot as well). I mean they're basically saying that the only way to enjoy the music is whilst high and as soon as they get that attitude in their heads you just know that they're going to put up their defences and not bother attempting to listen to it properly. They do the same thing around these parts when anything vaguely Eastern washes into the melody as well.

 

It's true to an extent what Murphy said though, at least with me it is. I don't give the time of day to sit down and actually listen deep to classical or rock. Guess I should change that.

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Personally I can't blame people for loving music which I find is way too commercial. I can be angered, but eventually I'd realize being angered is stupid and I can't blame them for loving the music they listen to. I mean when I was a kid and was just finding out the different artists and varieties of music almost anything would sound great to me. But as I researched and discovered more music I found some music which I liked much better then the rest and I sticked with it. I don't limit myself to a certain genre, or certain style of music. I can listen to anything, if it was created by a really creative individual or a group then it surely has to be a great peace of music, no matter the genre. 'Creative' is a different definition to me and to anyone else, so this is a highly subjective matter.

 

Anyway, blaming someone else for not liking the genre you like is a bit egoistic. "Hey you over there! You don't like electronic music?! Omg you're probably not human then!". Stupid, cmon, it's tastes afterall. Why fight wars over it? With over 6 billion people on the planet, you surely can realize that there are people who have different tastes then yourself or a group of people. Instead of fighting back the ignorants with the same tactics - by saying the genre they listen to is shit because they said the same for the genre you listen to - you should instead be a smarter person and either ignore those kinds of people or give them a real tour of what this music is all about. But don't expect people to just instantly like the music you play them, afterall it's all in the tastes.

 

Perhaps however some people would stop being at least so critical of genres they don't really listen to if they gave those genres a real listen. At least they could respect the people who enjoy that kind of music. I might not understand what people find so interesting in Eurovision songs, but hey if that makes them tick then good for them. Just as long as they keep an open mind I have nothing against people who enjoy commercial music.

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Personally I can't blame people for loving music which I find is way too commercial. I can be angered, but eventually I'd realize being angered is stupid and I can't blame them for loving the music they listen to. I mean when I was a kid and was just finding out the different artists and varieties of music almost anything would sound great to me. But as I researched and discovered more music I found some music which I liked much better then the rest and I sticked with it. I don't limit myself to a certain genre, or certain style of music. I can listen to anything, if it was created by a really creative individual or a group then it surely has to be a great peace of music, no matter the genre. 'Creative' is a different definition to me and to anyone else, so this is a highly subjective matter.

 

Anyway, blaming someone else for not liking the genre you like is a bit egoistic. "Hey you over there! You don't like electronic music?! Omg you're probably not human then!". Stupid, cmon, it's tastes afterall. Why fight wars over it? With over 6 billion people on the planet, you surely can realize that there are people who have different tastes then yourself or a group of people. Instead of fighting back the ignorants with the same tactics - by saying the genre they listen to is shit because they said the same for the genre you listen to - you should instead be a smarter person and either ignore those kinds of people or give them a real tour of what this music is all about. But don't expect people to just instantly like the music you play them, afterall it's all in the tastes.

 

Perhaps however some people would stop being at least so critical of genres they don't really listen to if they gave those genres a real listen. At least they could respect the people who enjoy that kind of music. I might not understand what people find so interesting in Eurovision songs, but hey if that makes them tick then good for them. Just as long as they keep an open mind I have nothing against people who enjoy commercial music.

chill :)

everyone can listen to anything (s)he likes but when someone says maroon 5 is the best rock band on earth, or daft punk makes the sickest electronic music, or 40 year old virgin is the best movie ever made, or..., it's a different story!!! not that i care about it, i probably won't even bother -_-

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Well, for one problem: Trying to play instrumental songs at parties may not get the reaction that you want. A lot of those "mainstream people" are going to want something catchy. Whether it's a funny beat or an easy chorus to quickly catch on to. Something that can keep them going. So when you take those things out and have only instrumentation, they can be at a loss since they are not familiar with it as you said earlier. And then, they end up getting turned off by it because they are not in the mood to listen, they are in the mood to party!

 

 

Yeah, there's plenty of psytrance to party to but a lot of them just don't understand. Maybe a few do, and that's good. But like many of you said before, they get into that stereotypical generalization that you have to be some kind of hippy tripping out on LSD or whatever to listen to stuff like psytrance and all that jazz. Then you might feel alienated or angry because some of them may do drugs anyway because they want to party and that makes them hypocritical in a way.

 

 

The only solution to my mind is to try and educate them. Yes, a tedious task. But if you're aim is to try an get them to appreciate what musical tastes you have over what they are accustomed to, then trying to get them to learn is the only option; albeit slightly better than just forcing them to listen to what you think is good. Telling them, first off that you don't need drugs to have a great experience with the music that you love. Secondly, that they need to learn how to listen to music outside the party room. And if they have that skill down, then you may be in luck. Lastly, show them the classics. If they don't know what the good stuff is, then you owe them to steer them into the right direction because... let's face it, if you even get slightly angry or irritated that they don't like your music and that they make out some kind of idiotic bland statement about why you listen to that music and then NOT show them what the classics are, then you're pretty much no better than them. I'm not trying to be judgmental. One may say it's all relative anyway, but we're not dealing with relativity; we're dealing with musical opinions and preferences.

 

 

 

That is, of course, if they are not open minded.

 

 

For those that are open minded, then you CAN have an intelligent discussion with them about music and hopefully you can find some common ground with them and that can expand either person's knowledge about why someone listens to the music that they do and what they feel/think is good music and what is bad music according to their tastes and opinions.

 

Someone that is open minded will tell you that they like a lot of different stuff but also tell you why they don't like a lot different stuff, if you get my meaning. They can tell you that they're okay with the differences and can respect someone else's tastes just as much as they like their own. So helping them to "discover" whatever kind of music you want them to discover in a healthy environment would be slowly ease them into it and then adjust accordingly as they take it all in.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure most of you know this, though. I don't know why I'm rambling on anyways...

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ps: by the way, if you like coldplay, it proves that you dont know a lot in rock, just like people who loves infected mushroom(there new album) doesnt know psychadelics![/size]

[/size]

go to metacritics.com it a good review rock site[/size][/size]

Hehe, why do you think i don't know anything about rock? WHen i was younger all i listened to was rock! I've been all the way from metallica, dizzy miss lizzy, Led zeppelin, Pink floyd, SOAD even sepultura and slipknot! But i don't listen to most of that music anymore (except pink floyd, led zeppelin and some other single chosen songs, mostly old stuff...)

 

And i wouldn't even classify Coldplay as rock, i see it more as a unique and talented pop-band, that creates and plays the (IMO really awesome) music themselves!! You see the thing i love about coldplay is the super chilled atmospheres and he's voice that just makes me relax, almost as much as an ambient track would do... It has nothing to do with guns, skulls, gay leather west's OR guitar solos ;) (...And Seriously, you don't like Sparks on Parachutes? Or any other track on that perfect album?)

 

BTW go listen to the Zap you moron :P

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chill :)

when someone says maroon 5 is the best rock band on earth, or daft punk makes the sickest electronic music, or 40 year old virgin is the best movie ever made, or..., it's a different story!!! not that i care about it, i probably won't even bother -_-

Exactly, its not the taste of others that bother me, its that some people wont even be open to good movies, or good music or good food even, some people like watching celinde dion live while eating pizza and they say its the best food ever, and thats pisses me of

 

Abou the taste thing, i dont agree when people say taste is unquestionnable; lets say someone who have tasted all the wine in the world (lets say lol) well he has the right to say this wine is really good, ans this one is not, but if someone have tasted 10 wine in his life , his taste his questionnable, of course he likes this wine or this wine, but can we really count on his taste, NO!, but the guy who tasted all the wine, we will take his taste more seriously! and its the same for everything; if someone never listen other thing than avril lavigne and listen to american pie, even if the guy LOVED those 2 thing and says its the best movies ever and the best femele singer of all time, who cares, he dont know what he is talking about

 

So taste, yes its in the nature, but if you dont know about movies, dont talk about movies like you know movies! or dont talk about music if you only have heard a small amount of music, its just logical

anyways!

 

I think were just lucky to be able to appreciate ambient and psy music

 

so lets consider ourself a small familly of taste independent lovers of buzzy music for smarty brains!!!!! and let michael jackson for my mother!

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and let michael jackson for my mother!

Erm, what? :lol:

 

The rest of the post, I agree on. I mean nobody likes a shouter who thinks he knows best. Best is to keep opinions to one's self if he/she doesn't have that much experience. Or at least share their opinion in a more open-minded manner, like "hey I really like britney spears, but, is there any other music out there that I should check before rising her to the heavens of all musicians..?".

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Hehe, why do you think i don't know anything about rock? WHen i was younger all i listened to was rock! I've been all the way from metallica, dizzy miss lizzy, Led zeppelin, Pink floyd, SOAD even sepultura and slipknot! But i don't listen to most of that music anymore (except pink floyd, led zeppelin and some other single chosen songs, mostly old stuff...)

 

And i wouldn't even classify Coldplay as rock, i see it more as a unique and talented pop-band, that creates and plays the (IMO really awesome) music themselves!! You see the thing i love about coldplay is the super chilled atmospheres and he's voice that just makes me relax, almost as much as an ambient track would do... It has nothing to do with guns, skulls, gay leather west's OR guitar solos ;) (...And Seriously, you don't like Sparks on Parachutes? Or any other track on that perfect album?)

 

BTW go listen to the Zap you moron :P

Okay buzzyman, please its okay if you love coldplay and loved slipknot lol, you have the right man, and keep thinking that one of the best album in electronica is 1200 mics- the time machine! we dont have the same taste thats all

come on man, coldplay is made for being liked by the mainstream, me and my friends dont even mention coldplay cause its really not that good, but feel free to like it, if you like it, well your lucky, cause you will love tons and tons and tons of music, im just selective, and really, coldplay vs radiohead, coldplay is not even worth listening with all the good music around, but thats only my opinion

why do you take everything so personally, lets makes peace and lets sing a song with the beautiful lyrics of coldplay! i went looking to hes lyrics, man come on, go listen to nanook rub it from frank zappa

 

men go listen to: all i need from radiohead im pretty sure you gotta freak out if you like coldplay, im able to understand what you find in coldplay good, but believe me, theres a lot more than coldplay

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It has nothing to do with guns, skulls, gay leather west's OR guitar solos

Thats crazy how you shown me how full of prejudice you are

 

AND really, you know rock cause you were listening when you were young sepultra and slipknot?????hahahaha those band makes you know rock?????? come on!!!!!

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