Astrancer is the newschool GOD!

[technosomy]

and you would know all about that radi wouldn't you

until someone starts a thread and sais, radi is the new oldschool god!

pretty please, with sugar on top

shut the f#%k up!

[radi6404]

Listen, techno soomy, I don#t know how you have reached the conclusion that I think of me as the newschool Goa god, I have talked about my tracks a few times and said I intented to make them sound oldschool Goa like, nothing more. I did not say they are very good or true masterpeaces, that is made out by some forum posters and you, man. The last time I spoke about my tracks I even critizised them and agreed to the posts of a forum member, who was saying the track lacks direction and a climax. so I know my tracks are far from being really good true goa tracks, but this thread is not about me or my tracks. This thread is about Astrancer and I posted my opinoin aobut him and his style of music, that was all. So I would appreciate, if you stop insulting me and trying to make others think that I think very highly of my own tracks, since that is not true.

 

so next time you post a comment like this my responce will be different.

 

and about my anylsis and comparison about Astrancer and artists of the oldschool Goa period, I simply count the number of melodies, basslines, strings, changes and other things and how they were used in oldschool Goa trance and how they are used in neschool goa trance, reaching the conclusion, that many newschool goa tracks have just one melodie playing from beginning til the end of track, that is variated, while the track advances. You can see this on many Ypsilon 5 or Ethereal tracks for example. A very good example of this is Ypsilon5- Ground Zero, where one melody is used almost the whole lengh of the track. I have not heart many of Astrancers tracks, but the ones I have heart and the ones that are posted here match that description aswell.

[Richpa]

and about my anylsis and comparison about Astrancer and artists of the oldschool Goa period, I simply count the number of melodies, basslines, strings, changes and other things and how they were used in oldschool Goa trance and how they are used in neschool goa trance, reaching the conclusion, that many newschool goa tracks have just one melodie playing from beginning til the end of track, that is variated, while the track advances. You can see this on many Ypsilon 5 or Ethereal tracks for example. A very good example of this is Ypsilon5- Ground Zero, where one melody is used almost the whole lengh of the track. I have not heart many of Astrancers tracks, but the ones I have heart and the ones that are posted here match that description aswell.

 

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M_u0bCZTqk

[radi6404]

Richpa, Nice try. this track indeet has mor than just one melody playing the whole song, with alterations. There are some very good melodies to behart in this track and many changing elements. However this track is way too long for what it is in my opinion. It is more than 10 minutes and I tell you that only very few hardcore newschool goa trance fans can listen through the whole track without skipping forword. it is because the track is overloaded and the listener does not get a break or something he can prepare for, it is one melody, than the next one, then a break, then another melody, than a break, than the same melody as in the beginning, also the track lacks an intro in my opinion. It starts right away and allready in the first mintue you hear one of the main melodies. this is nothing like Astral, MWNN or MFG or EU, you are supposed to listen to 10 minutes of melodies, without places of break. this track has very good melodies, but the structure is not the typical evolving structure so people who are not goatrance lovers will hardly be able to listen through all of the track.

[Richpa]

it is because the track is overloaded and the listener does not get a break or something he can prepare for

 

than a break

then another melody, than a break,

 

also the track lacks an intro in my opinion. It starts right away and allready in the first mintue you hear one of the main melodies. this is nothing like...

Astral

 

MWNN

 

MFG

[ion1zed]

Richpa, Nice try. this track indeet has mor than just one melody playing the whole song, with alterations. There are some very good melodies to behart in this track and many changing elements. However this track is way too long for what it is in my opinion. It is more than 10 minutes and I tell you that only very few hardcore newschool goa trance fans can listen through the whole track without skipping forword. it is because the track is overloaded and the listener does not get a break or something he can prepare for, it is one melody, than the next one, then a break, then another melody, than a break, than the same melody as in the beginning, also the track lacks an intro in my opinion. It starts right away and allready in the first mintue you hear one of the main melodies. this is nothing like Astral, MWNN or MFG or EU, you are supposed to listen to 10 minutes of melodies, without places of break. this track has very good melodies, but the structure is not the typical evolving structure so people who are not goatrance lovers will hardly be able to listen through all of the track.

 

Man, you're really getting on my nerves now. First class troll or what? Maybe it's the other Pavel again, after getting tired of being Nhjo?

 

You can't be serious, or you have a strange perception of reality, or you must be extremely full of disgust against newschool goa, or you're just not very intelligent so that you don't notice how you contradict yourself, generalize on other (otherwise well respected) artists and/or listeners, bring up the same AP, MFG, EU and MWNN bullshit (not that they're bullshit, but in nearly every single post you mention one of them) and are very disrespectful in your whole behaviour MOST of the time.

 

Really, get a grip.

[radi6404]

Richpa, main melody of Mahadeva 99 starts at about the third minute.

 

ion1zed, based on your outcome of the oldschool artists, telling me that you don#t want me to mention them I think it is a wise suggestion from me to change your profile name into a newschool Goa track you appreciate, since Ionized is one of the artists you do not want to be posted.

 

I don't really like the insultive post against me, since it is nothing personal about you, did I offend you, no. I said what I think about Astrancer and when I say something I mostly conclude it with other people, before posting it. Because if you want to talk about something, you have to look for several opinions to see what others think of it aswell, which are outside the Goa scene, and that person would refer to the Astrancer tunes as way too long and not changing enough. so when I post an anlys on a track it is based on several people's opinion.

 

And about newschool in general, I really have a hard time accepting that it is so different from oldschool. The heavy use of eastern and orientalic melodies, instead of typical uplifting goa melodies is the most annoying thing about newschool goa trance and besides a few exceptions most newschool Goa artists use those to me unacceptable orientalic melodies. I could listen to Arash - Boro boro and even that track has less eastern melodies than newschool Goa Trance. Personally I do not have anything against people from eastern countries, but heavy eastern influences in goa Trance are very annoying to me. There are other points about newschool goa Trance like the used synthesizzers or the speed that we talked about earlier that matter aswell, so newschool goa Trance unfortunately is not a comparison to oldschool Goa and I would rather play MFG - Message from God, having a little full on influence, than playing anything from Astrancer and similar.

[Drosophila]

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M_u0bCZTqk

 

Where is this track from?! It's really sweet!!!

[Drosophila]

Astrancer is too newschool Goaish to me. It sounds very newschool goa Trance in any way. there are some good tracks but really strong elements are missing somehow. For example the strong melodies you would hear on Astral or MFG albums or MFG. someone mentioned that it is not generic, but compare it to man with no name - under the influence, that is a really driving track. So I better listen to that than to the strange orientalic eastern melodies from Astrancer, that would better feet in Arabic tracks, preying fro Allah than in Goa Trance.

 

When you hear tracks from The Infinity Project, Man with no Name, Order Ordonata artists, or some of the israelian stuff, you can hear that one Goa Track by them has elements that can be used for 4 newschool Goa tracks. Just take Under the Influence for an example.

 

Are you on crack?! Have you not noticed Astral Projection use middle eastern scales and melodies?! I really don't think you should wonder why people react negatively to your posts, since they seem very ignorant and distasteful... pray to Allah... wtf?!

 

However this track is way too long for what it is in my opinion. It is more than 10 minutes and I tell you that only very few hardcore newschool goa trance fans can listen through the whole track without skipping forword.

 

yeah... you have to be a new school goa fan to listen to a +10 minute track... so true radi

 

facepalm

[radi6404]

it is not about the scales being used in the tracks. I think you don#t get it, do you? The melodies used by Astral projection and MFG are not the same melodies used by the newschool artists, if you fail to hear it I suggest that you are on crack. The melodies on Astral, MFG, old EU, Man with no Name, The Infinity Project may have eastern scales, but they do not sound orientalic. Astral Projection and MFG used to produce very uplifting and emotional melodies, that would not sound like a fast version of an orientalic track at all. The newschool stuff sounds more or less like a fast version of an iran or arabic track in my opnion. if you listent to a lot of newschool Goa Trance and compare it to Astral Projection - Unbelievable Technology or Virtual booster you will not find a lot of similarities between those songs and newschool goa Trance.

 

if you interpret my posts as ignorant or not is your choice, however my reactions to newschool goa trance have gotten a bit rougher, since after many years this style still is far away from oldschool Goa Trance and not varried enough.

[Richpa]

Where is this track from?! It's really sweet!!!

 

self-released by Astrancer in 2005 through last.FM, alongside with Virturama track

 

[ion1zed]

Richpa, main melody of Mahadeva 99 starts at about the third minute.

 

ion1zed, based on your outcome of the oldschool artists, telling me that you don#t want me to mention them I think it is a wise suggestion from me to change your profile name into a newschool Goa track you appreciate, since Ionized is one of the artists you do not want to be posted.

 

I don't really like the insultive post against me, since it is nothing personal about you, did I offend you, no. I said what I think about Astrancer and when I say something I mostly conclude it with other people, before posting it. Because if you want to talk about something, you have to look for several opinions to see what others think of it aswell, which are outside the Goa scene, and that person would refer to the Astrancer tunes as way too long and not changing enough. so when I post an anlys on a track it is based on several people's opinion.

 

And about newschool in general, I really have a hard time accepting that it is so different from oldschool. The heavy use of eastern and orientalic melodies, instead of typical uplifting goa melodies is the most annoying thing about newschool goa trance and besides a few exceptions most newschool Goa artists use those to me unacceptable orientalic melodies. I could listen to Arash - Boro boro and even that track has less eastern melodies than newschool Goa Trance. Personally I do not have anything against people from eastern countries, but heavy eastern influences in goa Trance are very annoying to me. There are other points about newschool goa Trance like the used synthesizzers or the speed that we talked about earlier that matter aswell, so newschool goa Trance unfortunately is not a comparison to oldschool Goa and I would rather play MFG - Message from God, having a little full on influence, than playing anything from Astrancer and similar.

 

Guess what? It's exactly the Astral Projection track I've named myself after here in this forum. I love AP and I love MFG and the oldschool stuff, I grew up with it! And why should I give myself a name of a newschool track? That's your problem...you're just soooooo narrow-minded and ignorant, it's really unbelievable.

 

Regarding your line of argumentation...why would one have to take in account other peoples' opinion on a specific track in order to form a personal opinion about it? Especially when those people are no "insiders", i.e. people who don't listen to Goa Trance / Psytrance at all? That makes absolutely no sense. Why should I ask one of my friends, who for example only listen to Metal, Pop, whatever, ask about their opinion on a specific Goa Trance track. OF COURSE there is a very high probability they won't like it, because they're not into that music genre in the first place! But what does that say about the track itself? NOTHING! They'd probably say the same thing about tracks by Hallucinogen or Alienapia...it makes no difference because they're not into it, AT ALL.

 

And don't try to tell me that you're showing the tracks to friends who are not into that genre at all...I won't believe you anyway. Why? Because no one does that, it makes no sense. EXCEPT you want to annoy other people and make them think "omg radi again with some tracks I don't want to listen to!". I like old Black Metal stuff very much, e.g. Vinterland, Limbonic Art, Emperor, but I love some new Post Black Metal stuff as well, e.g. Wolves In The Throne Room, Altar Of Plagues. Of all my real life friends, persons I meet face to face, NONE likes that music. Do I go to them saying "Hey you must listen to this awesome track, "The Loss and Curse Of Reverence" by Emperor. It's oldschool, but compare it to "Earth: As A Womb" by Altar Of Plagues. Awesome Post Black Metal, no? Which one do you like better?"?? No, I don't, because it makes no sense. Does it make any difference on my opinion about the music? No. If you really do that with oldschool and newschool Goa Trance and friends of yours, then you really have some issues.

 

however my reactions to newschool goa trance have gotten a bit rougher, since after many years this style still is far away from oldschool Goa Trance and not varried enough.

 

But the thing that really annoys me the most about your postings here is how you criticize newschool acts for not sounding like oldschool acts! I mean come on, how pathetic is that? WHY EVEN SHOULD THEY, TO BEGIN WITH?

It's called newschool for fucks sake, it's not supposed to sound like the old stuff! What is the point in copying the old acts? Only so that you get to hear some more music you like? Again, that makes absolutely no sense.

Have you ever heard about progress or change? From what I get about art - at least most of it - stagnation is a very undesirable thing to have in art, and that includes music as well. People evolve and most of the time their work does so with them. Hell, even Astral Projection, Electric Universe, Pleiadians, MFG, Hallucinogen evolved over time and - sometimes significantly - changed their style, often to the dislike of fans who came to prefer one special style that specific artist had in the past. But you know what? It's their right to evolve in every direction they want to, and it's the right of every listener to either like or dislike that. It's a matter of taste, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Usually grown-up people accept it as a matter of fact that it cannot (should not) be argued about taste, but you, you won't stop there. You try to "argument" from an "objective" point of view, by "analyzing" a track, stating that it IS not good/not as good as old stuff or whatever - and that everyone HAS to see it that way. Because then you try to convince other people of your "objective analysis' results" by saying things like "Don't you see it has no key changes? Don't you see that the main melody starts already in the first minute of the track?", thereby stating that it's a bad track. You almost argument like there's some sort of specific formula that makes a track a good one. If that is so and if you know that formula or structure (you have to, because you're analyzing it, no?), then why don't you make some great oldschool tracks yourself?

 

The tracks you posted here in order to get some opinions by other forum users were, as far as I remember them, boring, bland and repetetive AND most of the other people here thought the same. You complained that you earned more and positive reactions in other forums (or maybe even in "real life"?), but you know what? I don't believe you, again. Because for example the number of listens on your soundcloud suggest otherwise. Please show me the other reactions, radi! But on top of that, you really have the chutzpa to call other artitsts, who have earned themselves a very high reputation in the scene you claim to be a part of, who energized thousands of people on dancefloors all around the world, who brought joy to countless people through their music, and who actually sold CDs and tickets, to produce boring and repetetive stuff?!

 

THAT is the thing YOU don't get, that YOU are disrespectful, ignorant and on top of that arrogant as well. I remember when you compared your music to Posford's work in one of the first threads after your "comeback", and even if you were so insightful not to claim to be as good as him, you don't seem to understand how FAR you really are away from producing music that is recognized by many people to be even remotely comparable to the newschool artists you so often criticise here, not to speak of landmark, genre defining masters as Posford is one of.

 

I won't even start to comment further on your VERY strange point of view regarding "oriental" influences in newschool Goa Trance...really, it's just too strange.

 

Still, you can have your opinion about everything, and you can even state it. But don't come here and try to convince others of it and don't act like it's the truth everybody is supposed to accept.

Hell, you can even try that, as you like, but I'm pretty sure that you will provoke more negative reactions towards yourself - just so you aren't surprised in the end.

[Panoptes]

Arguing rarely sways the other's opinion mainly because you are arguing about something subjective rather then fact. I don't want to take sides here but radi does say things that conflict with most of our opinions. Forums are for debate not flaming.

 

As for astrancer , I really enjoy some of his songs and in my opinion he rocks something that resembles an old school sound. I am comparing him to the old school sound as a whole, rather than individual projects from back in the day. He is infact stylistically different from old school acts yet his sound fits the frame quite well.

[Drosophila]

if you interpret my posts as ignorant or not is your choice, however my reactions to newschool goa trance have gotten a bit rougher, since after many years this style still is far away from oldschool Goa Trance and not varried enough.

 

Well try to look up ignorant in a dictionary... hell I will even link it to it http://dictionary.re...rowse/ignorant

 

You talk about new school trance as if you know what it is, and yet you generalize all new school goa trance by heavy use of middle eastern and Indian melodies of a few artists... that is pretty much the definition of the word, if that reflects you lack of knowledge of what is being produced, which I expect it to do.

 

So to make it clear, from reading your posts radi it is very hard not feel that they are based on very little more than a hunch...

 

And I couldn't care less that you don't like these melodies, you of course are free to feel however you want, but it's the way you always focus on a narrow set of examples (both likes and dislikes) and extrapolate all other things/opinions from these few experiences that destroys a proper debate. Of course we could just ignore these sour hickups, and for the most times I do, since that is how you sometimes are. But occasionally I still think you need to be told, not as hateful remark but because you could benefit from it in the long run, and so could our debates.

[Rotwang]

You try to "argument" from an "objective" point of view, by "analyzing" a track

 

ITYM 'anlysing'.

[radi6404]

It is quite unbelievable, that someone who shares a different opnion on a certain subject is classified as ignorant in this forum. I have indeet not heart a lot of newschool Goa, but how many newschool releases are there anyway? i have probably heart cutouts from more than 30 albums and they all sounded according to my descritpion or similar, so I do not understand how someone can say my knowledge about newschool Goa trance is very little. indeet my knowledge is not the best about that subject, but in fact I have listened to many releases, and those I have heart mainly Suntrip records do match my description.

 

ionIzed, I do not need to proof you what others have said about my tracks. Let's just say I have recieved good feedback about my tracks from some friends and on the music forum KVRaudio, both of my new and of my old tracks. And anyway my intention is not to make some tracks that sound great, but my intention is to make some tracks that sound oldschool and I think I managed that.

 

And about the other subject; A mate of mine who was called feathers and was in this forum earlier, he listens to all kinds of music and he likes complex music. So helaughs about a lot of Goa tracks regarding them as simple copy and paste music, even the tracks of many artists that are present on the forum. He demands complex musical structures, complex melodies and keychanges in a track, like some very complex metal tracks he listenes to, he also is able to play electric guitar. He laughs a lot about the newschool tracks I post him to show him what is being liked in this forum. He enjoys complex shpongle tracks and likes some of the more complex goa trance tracks, for example by hallucinogen, he liked some Boris Blenn tracks a lot. So I hope I did accurately answer your questions and erased your doubts about me and the suspection of me lying.

 

About tnewschool should be evolved from oldschool. No I have been using objective terms to describe my points here in the forum, but I find this is a big bullshit. Since aktually there are a lot of people who want new goa trance to sound like old goa trance!!!!! Do you think there are endless oldschool goa tracks so that you will never be able to hear all tracks? No, you will manage to hear most tracks you can get and then you have tolisten to them gain and again, because of some people like you, who demand the style to not be the same as old goa trance, but to be "new" Is this why Pop artists and other artists are making the ssame style of music for many years longer than goa even exist and have success with it? But you will say that Popl artists "e3volve" and change". Artists can evolve and change, however that should not be demanded and decided by the listeners, "who want the music not to sound like old stuff" since there are a lot of people who aktually want to hear the same music, even 50 years later, I am really at the edge not to be using some insultive words, but this is something very stupid, to demand evolvment, because we advance in time.

 

Tell me, if you think evolving is so important. Why the fuck do so many people listen to old music, even as old as being classical? Do those people want changes in classica, do they want new classical that has absolutely nothing to do with old classical? No, they don#t want that, they want to hear and enjoy Mozard, Bethoven, Franz Schubbert, tschaikowsky and many more, When I was young I learned to like and love Oldschool Goa Trance and I want to hear new oldschool like Goa trance even nowadays. I would rather hear progressive trance with some goa elements than newschool Goa Trance, since good Progressive has more similarity to oldschool Goa trance, than newschool Goa, it is just a bit dry.

 

 

Now about the other point you made, you said that a track can not be analysed with an objective method, because it is about taste. to some extent I agree to that. soem people might like the sound of simple tones to be fascinating and they have their right for that, as I have the right to like skinny girls. But we can analyse a track objectively and see how complex it is and what structures it aktually uses and so on. And I am someone who cares to some extent about that and my friends do even more, so they listen and analyse if a track has enough key changes, if the musical structure is complex, if the melodies are simple or complicated, if the intro is good, if the layering is well. so it is very dissapoitning to hear a track that is built up by a few strings, one melody that is alterated during the track and one simple bassline, that does not change even one time during the whole song and read others say it is a godlike masterpeace, like some stuff by Ethreal. My tracks altough they are so damn fucking awful to the people here, at least feature key changes, several basslines in a track, several entirely different melodies, several stringlines. Now I hope you don#t start againa nd say I praise myself, I do not, but we should be realistic and look at what we have. A track where one bassline plays 8 minutes through the track and one melody, that has a few variations, can that be a masterpeace???

 

Ofcourse I am ready for newschool goa trance aswell, however I mean newschool Goa Trance, that sounds more like the old stuff, if anyone can link me such stuff, I would be glad to hear it and to share my positive opinions about it here, if wanted.

[Rotwang]

Mozard, Bethoven, Franz Schubbert, tschaikowsky

OH GOD MAKE IT STOP

[radi6404]

Aktually I listen to such music aswell.

[ollylovesgoa]

I've begun to hate the term "newschool", it puts expectations on the artists that simply cannot be fulfilled. Oldschool Goa Trance was short-lived and special, happening in a unique space and time that can't be artificially recreated. We should just accept that it is a style of psychedelic trance, and listen to it if we enjoy it, and not if we don't. Slating the artists for expressing themselves in a way which doesn't appeal to our preconcieved expectations of what a type of music should sound like is moronic and damaging to a scene that should surely encourage self-expression.

[Rotwang]

Aktually I listen to such music aswell.

 

You should try listening to Soshtacovitz or Wanger or Stickheizing. Notice how it sounds totally different to classical music by Mozerd and Beefothen and Hndl and other composers who lived before the 20^th Century? There's a reason for that.

[ion1zed]

ITYM 'anlysing'.

 

Of course I do Damn leetspeek internet hax0r stuff.

@radiWTF? Dude, I give up. You really don't get my points. Maybe it's the language barrier, maybe they're beyond your grasp, but frankly, I don't even care any longer.

[radi6404]

ollylovesgoa, new school would not be a downgrade or is not, some people enjoy it a lot. However it is a different style and it is not the time that makes the music, it is the music that makes the time in my opinion. If the artists would produce tracks that sound like oldschool Goa Trance people would appreciate it more, some of thm at least.

[radi6404]

Of course I do Damn leetspeek internet hax0r stuff.

@radiWTF? Dude, I give up. You really don't get my points. Maybe it's the language barrier, maybe they're beyond your grasp, but frankly, I don't even care any longer.

 

your attempts to embaraze me with such comments do not work. it probably is you who does not get my points, do you? do you think music should be judged by random factors or at least partly be judged by the complexity?

 

And one more think ionIzed. Knowing stuff like key changes, complex melodies and so on is one thing, being able to operate the host and see everything infront of you, even without midi controller is another thing. I can not produce tracks that are as good as oldschool goa trance withou many years of learning and getting experience, maybe I never will be able to. But knowing the "forumula" as you call it is something different

[ollylovesgoa]

ollylovesgoa, new school would not be a downgrade or is not, some people enjoy it a lot. However it is a different style and it is not the time that makes the music, it is the music that makes the time in my opinion. If the artists would produce tracks that sound like oldschool Goa Trance people would appreciate it more, some of thm at least.

 

I don't think it's possible for people to start producing music delibrately so that it sounds like old-school, artists used to make Goa like they did because it just evolved that way, it was something they were all in tune with and the scene was happening, along with analogue instruments etc, Goa was like it was, but you can't recreate that, it doesn't matter how much a new guy tries to sound like Etnica or Astral Projection, it wont come off sounding properly old school. It doesn't matter how many hundreds of bands try, there will never be a new band that does what Led Zeppelin did, just like there will never be a newschool group that produces a new Alien Protein. It's something you have to accept, and not slate artists for not sounding the way you want them to.

[radi6404]

you are right, any tband is unique. But the newschool tracks I have heart unfortunately sound totally different to the old names, unfortunately.