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The cancers of todays Psy scene


Ormion
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Well, it all boils down to the definitions used, then :)

 

To my mind 'dark' is not about sounding evil / satanic / horror - that's just plain ridiculous for a dance music and that's why I probably never liked Dark Soho, Xenomorph etc. First of all, I personally associate 'dark' with mysterious, uncertain, sci-fi, moody and ...well, psychedelic - in old-school this would be UX, Menis, Slide, Biot, Darshan, Ominus, Sandman etc. In current times, best example for me is Alien Mental's "Mind Hack" - this is a real jurney CD, taking the listener through the religions, subconsciousness, tribal stuff and aliens and doing so it sound like a proper album with a story behind the beats, that provekes questions and makes you think. On the other hand, you've got latest EVP "Holographic consciousness" which is touching very similar subjects, but I'd be far from calling it 'dark', because it has (few) melodies, couple of 'funny' samples and is in general more musical than your typical darkpsy - sort of like a perfect combination of darkpsy and full-on, with a pinch of good old psychedelic trance.

 

So, IMO being 'dark' is a combination of a theme AND certain production techniques (monotonous 16th bassline, short bursts of screechy & hard sounds, 'spooky' pads & atmospheres, heavy processing & editing etc.).

So, is Cannibal Holocaust DarkPsy for you, or Kindzadza? :D
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So, is Cannibal Holocaust DarkPsy for you, or Kindzadza? :D

Please notice, that above I was saying what 'dark', not 'darkpsy' means to me.

 

This is going to be confusing, but IMO there is a difference between 'dark' and 'darkpsy', meaning that the former is a description of mood / atmosphere and the latter is the sub-genre of psychedelic trance. With that in mind, yes - both Cannibal Holocaust and Kindzadza are 'darkpsy', but none of them is really 'dark' - the first one (I have not heard it and - judging by the name - I don't intend to) is probably the darkpsy's equivalent of cheesy full-on and Kindzadza (second album, have not heard the first one) is more sci-fi / technical music (I believe it was called by someone on reviews subforum "psychedelic physics" - well put).

 

Truth is that not all darkpsy is dark, but similar things can be said for other sub-genres: there are different flavours of full-on, progressive, new-school (Suntrip etc.) even chill/downtempo. So maybe the name is not the best one, but at least it defines the style pretty precisely. And the reviewer can always say "it's happy darkpsy" ;):D

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Please notice, that above I was saying what 'dark', not 'darkpsy' means to me.

 

This is going to be confusing, but IMO there is a difference between 'dark' and 'darkpsy', meaning that the former is a description of mood / atmosphere and the latter is the sub-genre of psychedelic trance. With that in mind, yes - both Cannibal Holocaust and Kindzadza are 'darkpsy', but none of them is really 'dark' - the first one (I have not heard it and - judging by the name - I don't intend to) is probably the darkpsy's equivalent of cheesy full-on and Kindzadza (second album, have not heard the first one) is more sci-fi / technical music (I believe it was called by someone on reviews subforum "psychedelic physics" - well put).

 

Truth is that not all darkpsy is dark, but similar things can be said for other sub-genres: there are different flavours of full-on, progressive, new-school (Suntrip etc.) even chill/downtempo. So maybe the name is not the best one, but at least it defines the style pretty precisely. And the reviewer can always say "it's happy darkpsy" ;):D

That I agree on, and thats what I wanted to get at. Thank you! :)
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Please notice, that above I was saying what 'dark', not 'darkpsy' means to me.

 

This is going to be confusing, but IMO there is a difference between 'dark' and 'darkpsy', meaning that the former is a description of mood / atmosphere and the latter is the sub-genre of psychedelic trance. With that in mind, yes - both Cannibal Holocaust and Kindzadza are 'darkpsy', but none of them is really 'dark' - the first one (I have not heard it and - judging by the name - I don't intend to) is probably the darkpsy's equivalent of cheesy full-on and Kindzadza (second album, have not heard the first one) is more sci-fi / technical music (I believe it was called by someone on reviews subforum "psychedelic physics" - well put).

 

Truth is that not all darkpsy is dark, but similar things can be said for other sub-genres: there are different flavours of full-on, progressive, new-school (Suntrip etc.) even chill/downtempo. So maybe the name is not the best one, but at least it defines the style pretty precisely. And the reviewer can always say "it's happy darkpsy" ;):D

Well said.

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No, we expect 20 overkill albums each year.

I think we have that this year :D

Probably more if I had the time/money to search through the CRAP!!!!!

 

Well, it all boils down to the definitions used, then :)

 

To my mind 'dark' is not about sounding evil / satanic / horror - that's just plain ridiculous for a dance music and that's why I probably never liked Dark Soho, Xenomorph etc. First of all, I personally associate 'dark' with mysterious, uncertain, sci-fi, moody and ...well, psychedelic - in old-school this would be UX, Menis, Slide, Biot, Darshan, Ominus, Sandman etc. In current times, best example for me is Alien Mental's "Mind Hack" - this is a real jurney CD, taking the listener through the religions, subconsciousness, tribal stuff and aliens and doing so it sound like a proper album with a story behind the beats, that provekes questions and makes you think. On the other hand, you've got latest EVP "Holographic consciousness" which is touching very similar subjects, but I'd be far from calling it 'dark', because it has (few) melodies, couple of 'funny' samples and is in general more musical than your typical darkpsy - sort of like a perfect combination of darkpsy and full-on, with a pinch of good old psychedelic trance.

 

So, IMO being 'dark' is a combination of a theme AND certain production techniques (monotonous 16th bassline, short bursts of screechy & hard sounds, 'spooky' pads & atmospheres, heavy processing & editing etc.).

That's the kind of "Dark" I like too.

 

One cancer is that when you say dark people automatically assume you mean darkpsy! :wank:

It's the same with other descriptions, full on got turned into a genre & now you can't say something is Full on with \out people thinking you mean generic cheesy fullon :angry:

I described in a review that a track sounded industrial meaning that it had a feeling of industry, big machines moving, production lines etc NOT the genre industrial but someone had a go at me for describing it as industrial <_<

 

The problem is people pigeonhole words into genres. Say you like psytrance and most people will think regular trance like Tiesto or say I don't like that techno shit! The more informed non psy head will still assume you like cheesy Israeli fullon :wank: :wank: :wank:

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I think we have that this year :D

Probably more if I had the time/money to search through the CRAP!!!!!

Well probably there is.. for most people. I've got that damn specific taste which most (new) music doesn't fit into. Psytrance-wise anyways.

 

So could u give me that list of 20 psychedellic overkill albums from this year? I wanna check that out.

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Well probably there is.. for most people. I've got that damn specific taste which most (new) music doesn't fit into. Psytrance-wise anyways.

 

So could u give me that list of 20 psychedellic overkill albums from this year? I wanna check that out.

I can give you 2, Voice of Cod, OOOD :D
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Well probably there is.. for most people. I've got that damn specific taste which most (new) music doesn't fit into. Psytrance-wise anyways.

 

So could u give me that list of 20 psychedellic overkill albums from this year? I wanna check that out.

Jikkenteki - Flights Of Infinity

Tamlin - Spectrogram

Ra - 9th

Artifakt - The Magus

Various Artists - Opus Iridium

OOOD - Fourthought

Kino Oko - Alphabetically Divided Highway

Anakoluth - Dwelling In The Void

M.E.E.O. - Highlight Me Please

Procs - The Lonely Land of Tada

Minilogue - Animals

 

 

all very psychedelic for me. I've not been buying much upbeat music recently either so I'm sure there are more ;)

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psytrance is dying on it's arse.

 

cancers of the scene:

 

government legislation making it harder for genuine promoters to nurture talent.

 

modern technology for removing the quality filter and leaving us with lakes of shit to swim through. although we know there are gems to be found, the shit slowly saps our strength to find it.

 

age and cynicism.

 

the blind willingness of 99% of producers to stick to a formula.

 

the fact that things are definitely not as good as they used to be.

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psytrance is dying on it's arse.

 

cancers of the scene:

 

government legislation making it harder for genuine promoters to nurture talent.

 

modern technology for removing the quality filter and leaving us with lakes of shit to swim through. although we know there are gems to be found, the shit slowly saps our strength to find it.

 

age and cynicism.

 

the blind willingness of 99% of producers to stick to a formula.

 

the fact that things are definitely not as good as they used to be.

how cynical! :D:rolleyes:
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Jikkenteki - Flights Of Infinity

Tamlin - Spectrogram

Ra - 9th

Artifakt - The Magus

Various Artists - Opus Iridium

OOOD - Fourthought

Kino Oko - Alphabetically Divided Highway

Anakoluth - Dwelling In The Void

M.E.E.O. - Highlight Me Please

Procs - The Lonely Land of Tada

Minilogue - Animals

 

 

all very psychedelic for me. I've not been buying much upbeat music recently either so I'm sure there are more ;)

 

Those are your overkill albums, mhhhhhhh..................

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sorry, just dont have any overkill albums this year. And never had 20 of them / year

I'm feelin you...

 

I reckon there are perhaps 4-5 really good psy albums each year at best.

 

I guess over time what happens is, you'll find a very certain soundtexture appealing, thus getting more picky and picky...

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  • 1 year later...

Once again I’m late for the discussion, so I’m just gonna throw my 2 cents and leave.

The very artists that once made the scene big are tearing it down. Let’s start with Spun Records.

 

Posted Image

 

Seriously?

So these people turn the scene into crap and then they try to “innovate” because, thanks to them, no one likes full-on anymore. BTW, I do like full-on and the machinegun bass everyone seems to hate. I am thankful for Time Code, Nano, and artists like Fromem Ory who can make good old fashioned full-on as it is meant to be. Anyway, admitting to like full-on nowadays is an embarrassment thanks Chemical Crew, Spun Records, Phonokol, and other crap&cheese factories. What’s the outcome? The very people responsible for this are either migrating to techno (Riktam and Bansi, Beatkrush aka CPU), where they will eventually wreck things and move somewhere else again, or “re-inventing psytrance”, like Krome Angels (Dado, Dino Psaras and Shanti). Not interested in either.

 

On the other hand, the full-on formula has been mastered perfectly: melody and clutter, the louder the better. And we end up with the newest Phantasm or Materia compilations. I can see this stuff making people go crazy, but it has no substance to it. Although I have to admit this has a very good backlash. Artists like Zen Mechanics and Tron are doing great stuff that follows the opposite principle: smooth and steady trance that doesn’t abuse melody nor buildups.

 

That’s my humble opinion. Don’t mind if I go check the newest Zenon compilation because everything else pisses me off. You may now proceed to bashing Darkpsy.

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I wouldn't say liking full-on is an embarrassment. It was moreso earlier in the last decade. Since then artists have found ways to use certain aspects of full-on to make the music more compelling for various crowds. It's all about natural selection and adaptation. Music, like a plant or a flower, will use any means at its discretion to find its way into our minds and hearts. Music is the manipulator, not the labels or even the artists. Humans are merely the vehicle, the facilitator.

 

Edit: I'd also like to add that the definition of "full-on" itself has adapted over the years. In the late '90s, early '00s, "full-on" was used as a term to describe heavy, powerful Goa music like Pleiadians and UX.

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One major cancer that I think is killing the scene (at least here on the Left Coast of the US) is that recently, festivals and gatherings gave up on anonymity and opened themselves up to just about anybody looking for it. As a rave convert myself, I fell victim to psytrance elitism in the early part of this decade. But now I understand and realize why I was treated this way.

 

Dirty ravers who are used to the "safe and sane" atmosphere of their massive arena raves or the highly publicized (but very legal) commercial raves are stumbling on the renegade outdoor gatherings and festivals. Then they see this as a completely different release but without the precautions necessary to preserve the culture. I'll admit it, today's ravers are like locusts, they find what's good and feast on it until it's no more. Then they move on to the next trend.

 

As a dj/producer/psuedo-promoter, it feels good to know your efforts are being noticed. But I wonder, at what cost? It's already begun with the integration of the generic sounds into what people are calling psytrance (refer to the Psychedelic vs. Progressive thread). Minimal techno and other genres are being integrated into festivals and gatherings because its what the masses are liking at the moment. All in which to appeal to them to gain a greater audience. Now, I'm not sure about you... but that sounds like selling out to me.

 

So I have to ask, "Has psytrance sold out?"

 

This could also be a cancer that is plaguing the scene. We want it faster, harder, longer, and more of it. If a festival or gathering doesn't have stacks of speakers (in which only half are usually running) with several headlining artists and isn't the appeal of at least 1000 people (ravers and psytrancers alike); then it isn't worth spending time on. Well, at least this seems to be the general consensus.

 

Is the psytrance scene dying? I don't think so. In fact, with this new openness it's attracting alot of new listeners. I think it's it's just mutating. Maybe the radiation from treating the cancers is creating a mutant scene. Who knows? But many more people are aware of psytrance now... Much more than a decade ago. Is this a good thing? Well, I honestly believe no.

 

The psytrance scene didn't need to be validated by the acceptance of others. Psytrancers were a community of their own. They supported each other. Their validation was within it's own community and culture. Not due to its number of followers but in the quality of its community.

 

In which I have to say that the true cancer that plagues the scene is not a matter of who, what, or where... but how. Quantity over quality has become the cancer.

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Saying Darkpsy is Psy-Trance is like saying that the shitty bleep bloop tech/electro house "Trance" artists are spinning today is Trance.

 

Sure some of the fullon may be a little cheesy or lovey dovey, but so was some of the psychedelic rock of the 60's and 70's. That's kind of the point, who wants to take a heavy dose of hallucinogens and listen to some dark evil tortured shit? Some sick, twisted people, that's who, which only proves the point being made in this thread that it's a different scene. The Psy scene has moved into the chillout world as a refuge from the hateful garbage that's infecting psy-trance exempli gratia: St. Posford doing shpongle.

 

Edit: I'd just add that there is nothing wrong with writing some stuff that's emotionally darker, but it's been taken to a whole other eschelon.

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That's kind of the point, who wants to take a heavy dose of hallucinogens and listen to some dark evil tortured shit? Some sick, twisted people, that's who, which only proves the point being made in this thread that it's a different scene.

 

Please explain how exactly, say, Kindzadza, or Overdream, or Alien Mental, or The Nommos are "evil tortured shit".

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Please explain how exactly, say, Kindzadza, or Overdream, or Alien Mental, or The Nommos are "evil tortured shit".

 

 

See the edit. Also I'd point out how psychically sensitive someone can be when they are in a state of altered consciousness so any type of negative connotation being conveyed through music or lyric can adversely affect the mindset.

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Also I'd point out how psychically sensitive someone can be when they are in a state of altered consciousness so any type of negative connotation being conveyed through music or lyric can adversely affect the mindset.

 

So what negative connotations are conveyed through the music or lyrics of, say, Kindzadza, Overdream, Alien Mental or The Nommos, for example?

 

By the way, did you know that "St. Posford" once released a little-known album called The Lone Deranger, whose track titles include such things as Demention, Horrorgram, Gamma Goblins Part 2 and Deranger? Do you think that those titles may have negative connotations?

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So what negative connotations are conveyed through the music or lyrics of, say, Kindzadza, Overdream, Alien Mental or The Nommos, for example?

 

By the way, did you know that "St. Posford" once released a little-known album called The Lone Deranger, whose track titles include such things as Demention, Horrorgram, Gamma Goblins Part 2 and Deranger? Do you think that those titles may have negative connotations?

 

 

I'm not trying to make any specific arguments against any individual artists or dissuade people from listening to whatever they want. I'm just simply pointing out where the schism has happened in the community, and generally why it's happened and my personal opinion about the subject, which after all, was what this thread was for, wasn't it?

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I'm not trying to make any specific arguments against any individual artists or dissuade people from listening to whatever they want. I'm just simply pointing out where the schism has happened in the community, and generally why it's happened and my personal opinion about the subject, which after all, was what this thread was for, wasn't it?

 

Sure, but if you're going to insult half the readers of this forum (who, I expect, don't much like being described as "sick, twisted people") then you should probably be prepared to back up your opinion with some actual facts.

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I'm not trying to make any specific arguments against any individual artists or dissuade people from listening to whatever they want. I'm just simply pointing out where the schism has happened in the community, and generally why it's happened and my personal opinion about the subject, which after all, was what this thread was for, wasn't it?

 

I equate such things to the general state of society. In the pre-millennial days, it was about hope and anxiety towards the new millennium. The fear generated wasn't that of life or death, but that of urgency that if we don't get our affairs in order the "machines" will take over. Or if anything, all those technological luxuries that we have generated for ourselves will likely be gone. But Y2K was a fraud. The clocks turned just like any other day. No financial breakdown, no total shutdown of society as we knew it. The anxiety we gathered was for nothing.

 

Now, a decade later... a different mindset has been fostered. 9/11, Bush, and the economic downfall of the American nation has developed a generation that knows only fear. And this fear isn't the same as 15 years ago. This fear is a fear of the unknown. A dark, dismal fear that has grown to contempt in many young people. I see it in my own children. My 18 year old son love punk rock, but it's not the same punk I used to listen to at his age. My punk rock was about revolution and fighting the system. His punk rock is about the opposite... "Fighting for what's right is a waste because nobody's listening anyway."

 

I think psytrance music is on that same level. Many of the overtones are punk rock without the revolution. Dark, broody and hard... But coming off as chaotic and dismantled. Then there's the drug factor... I don't know about you, but I rarely see real hallucinogens out there anymore. There's more amphetamine based chemicals going around than psychotics. These substances tend create much more rigid vibrations than their mind-altering counterparts. I saw this same thing happen to the rave scene in the early '90s. Ravers were trading MDMA in for Speed. Tie in all this with the sense of life or death and unknown certainty. Well, you have a formula for some seriously dark overtones.

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