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Old School Goa lacks creativity!


healium
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Heh, I knew this would be an unpopular thread!

 

I am talking about older Infected Mushroom BTW... Not the new stuff for sure...

 

I hear what people are saying, and I do actually like this form of music - Transdimensional is a nice album, so is IFO, Cosmology etc... I do enjoy it...

 

But the way I gauge the creativity and uniqueness of an album is how distinct it sounds, and the other albums I described sound very much more distinct and "their own thing" than Transdimensional or Cosmology or Astral Projection..

 

Koxbox - "Dragon Tales" is a great example - nothing sounds like that at all - while I could put AP, Cosmosis, Dimension 5 etc in a similar sounding category, "Dragon Tales" I can't really compare to anything... Same with the others I mentioned...

 

And the newer stuff I very much feel lacks creativity...

 

The new full-on psytrance is very conformist and lacking creativity too, I like that style even less - at least the newer copycat goatrance has some soul...

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What kind of music do you want goa people to make so you don't call them copycats? I don't understand this. What are they copying. Do you want them to make goa? No? you'll call them copycats for doing that because that style already exists? Ok, do you want them to come up with their own style? Expiramental garbage psy? but now you'll say it has no soul and complain about how no one makes goa anymore.

 

Who is a copycat artist, name a newschool artist and who they are copying, we'll see how many people agree. I don't understand this attitude. Innovating has nothing to do with copying. An artist is copying if you can't tell their track apart from the sound they are copying. 90% of progressive and psytrance has this problem, where this problem is only in maybe 10% of all goa artists.

 

Its that or you just don't like this music anymore and are burnt out of hearing the sound, and nostalgic for the sense of wonder you had when you first heard the music and you must be upset that nothing sounds new or fresh to you today. There is a huge amount of good music today, as there was before. Open your ears and stop comparing things, what next, everyone who makes dance music is a copy cat because they use a kick drum? The music all sounds the same its just doof doof doof doof? Music and how you enjoy it is up to you, its not going to cater an awesome transcendental experience to you if you won't open your ears first. and you do that by getting rid of all these expectations on how an artist sounds or should sound.

 

What does this topic seek to achieve saying all this, if you feel a style is lacking creativity or its full of copy-cat artists (a bewildering idea), then perhaps this topic should be switched to what kind of things you think a style needs. Maybe take on production yourself and show everyone what the music is missing if you really feel like you know what you are talking about. Anything else just sounds like such selfish and self-centered whining to me. Something is wrong with the music? okay well what, lets talk about what you want, and see if people agree - or are we all just blindly argueing against eachothers taste again.

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Something is wrong with the music? okay well what, lets talk about what you want,

Less pitiful one note, no melody bass that is degraded to nothing but a percussion section.

 

More melody. Lead, pads, bass, everything needs more melody.

 

Kickdrum + your basic 303 clone 1 note bass hit for 30 minutes is not very inspiring. If i wanted dance music, I would listen to techno. I think alot of modern stuff is basically soft techno with cliche'd eastern elements. "hai, i am going to use an eastern instrument, but play a western scale, and call it eastern!!"

 

Thats what i think modern psy is, so much that i make a distinction between psy and goa, goa has melody. psy generally doesn't gataka is mostly psy, filteria is mostly goa [although a bit cheezy :D]...thats my definition.

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Koxbox - \\\"Dragon Tales\\\" is a great example - nothing sounds like that at all - while I could put AP, Cosmosis, Dimension 5 etc in a similar sounding category, \\\"Dragon Tales\\\" I can\\\'t really compare to anything... Same with the others I mentioned...

All these artists have distinct features about their music, even though they may be pretty subtle here.

 

Astral Projection has very little creativity between tracks, they all sound the same, but they are still great, melodic and nobody sounds quite like them.

Dimension 5 has really big melodies in Transdimensional and then goes really laid back in Second Phaze (totally different albums), but they seem to have more careful constructed layers.

Cosmosis isn\\\'t very similar to either Koxbox or Dimension 5, though there are some similarities.

 

Also as someone else said, you\\\'ve just mentioned a couple artists here. Maybe if you listed to hundreds of artists you would understand how each of them has varies. Don\\\'t just listen to the most popular things as people tend to worship groups like Pleiadians, Cosmosis, Filteria, for example, which sound very similar to each other (many people don\\\'t care for creativity at all).

 

Try listening to some of these major artists who sound very different from each other: Jaia, Transwave, UX, Chi-AD, Sandman, Ra, KURO, Moksha, Ubar Tmar, Asia 2001....

 

Also, try to listen to the whole depth of the music (the nice part about old school goa!) not just the beat, because that\\\'s always going to be the same by definition.

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using the scale of creativity-levels.. where would things like these few (listed below) fit in ?

 

* structure (lineair vs fixed timeslots/climaxes),

* abundancy-level [melodic (over)abundance vs balanced element-synthesis (sober, cut down to the essence)

* timelessness (length in time that a track still sounds fresh or appealing)

* amount of actuality (how strong is it influenced by the recent hits/cult-stuff from back then)

-->the more music contains temporal influences, the less it will stand out over a longer period of time (except of course if the influences from back then somehow got lost in the spiral of decadence)

*etc..

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I think alot of modern stuff is basically soft techno with cliche'd eastern elements. "hai, i am going to use an eastern instrument, but play a western scale, and call it eastern!!"

I don't think any goa actually uses a patently eastern scale (ie. a scale that uses intervals different than that of Western scales, like some Arabic and Indian music). Few keyboards and synths allow such scales to be used.

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The topic is hilarous. Goa doesn´t sound the same at all, there are similarities but I found myself often looking for tracks in one specific style of goa and had a hard time finding some or sometimes no success at all. I agree to some users saying that it can get boring, yes it can, because there isn´t so much goa or at least the known stuff out there. There are maybe 300 tracks alltogether which are known but that´s not so much for listening year in year out. There is more stuff but we must look deeper in discogs and also at the more unknown artists.

 

Altough there are similarities it is also easy to recognise each of the artists elements, some have way different percussion to others, some have very different lead sounds and so on.

 

I think you don´t like the music because you open really weird threads that goa sounds the same. There are 20 tracks of an artist ina certain style of goa nd that´s all, than other 20 tracks in a certain style of an artist and so on. I am searching for years to similar music with same atmosphere to hallucinogen and can´t find some, I am searching for similar music to old Astral Projection and SFX which is very different to the hallucinogenic style and can´t find anything similar. Altough that´s all goa. You simply want to listen to a different kind of music, because I think it´s exactly the opposite in goa, there´s too little similarity fro artist to artist, way too little and if you find a certain style you will have a hard time find anything wtih similar atmospheres. I can´t find anything similar to Simon Posford altough I want it so much.

 

But since you didn´t provide any arguments and examples I just can´t take you serious, you did not explain what sounds similar and only mentioned 4 artists altough there are hundrets of artists involved with goa trance in that area. you talk about creativity so I guess you just listen to the mainstream artist and their tracks like Art of trance - Octopus MWNN Remix which is a track with less creativity just like Astral projection - People can fly with few sounds and differences. In your post you didn´t even provide any example of a style with more creativity and that´s rediculous. I am looking forword to see if you can add these examples and arguments later in this thread so that people can answer you but I guess you wont.

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There are maybe 300 tracks alltogether which are known but that´s not so much for listening year in year out. There is more stuff but we must look deeper in discogs and also at the more unknown artists.

I think there is a few more than 300 known tracks, commonly known to Goa fans anyway there is much more than 300.

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I think there is a few more than 300 known tracks, commonly known to Goa fans anyway there is much more than 300.

Sure there are, there are many more than 300 tracks, but if you would start making a list of the known and fammous tracks in goa you probably would end up in a list with less than 500, you see that I don´t count tribal oriented stuff like Elysium to the mot fammous stuff, or Hunab Ku for example or the tracks released under other nicks of psychaos.

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Sure there are, there are many more than 300 tracks, but if you would start making a list of the known and fammous tracks in goa you probably would end up in a list with less than 500, you see that I don´t count tribal oriented stuff like Elysium to the mot fammous stuff, or Hunab Ku for example or the tracks released under other nicks of psychaos.

ur so out of it man... am not gonna be mean to u, so i will just say that there is more.much more than that.

 

and ur in complete paradox. its impossible to have 300 FAMOUS tracks. i mean wtf think of it. its just tracks U like. wake up

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No, not tracks I like, I also like less fammous tracks. But the fammous tracks of the scene, they are below 500. If someone recommends tracks to gao newbies will he recommend him Electric universe - Galaxia or mfg - desert suns or Earth nation - An artificial dream (dragonfly rmx). No that are not the most fammous tracks. The fammous tracks are hallucinogen - LSD, Astral projection - Mahadeva and so on which appeared on most comps at taht time and I am sure these tracks are less than 500. you can consider them wellknown if you don´t like the word fammous.

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No, not tracks I like, I also like less fammous tracks. But the fammous tracks of the scene, they are below 500. If someone recommends tracks to gao newbies will he recommend him Electric universe - Galaxia or mfg - desert suns or Earth nation - An artificial dream (dragonfly rmx). No that are not the most fammous tracks. The fammous tracks are hallucinogen - LSD, Astral projection - Mahadeva and so on which appeared on most comps at taht time and I am sure these tracks are less than 500. you can consider them wellknown if you don´t like the word fammous.

oh ok..i get it
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I don't think any goa actually uses a patently eastern scale (ie. a scale that uses intervals different than that of Western scales, like some Arabic and Indian music). Few keyboards and synths allow such scales to be used.

Subcouds-on red

Doof-Lets turn on

 

Both use notes that are halfway between two western notes.

 

And isn't that what pitch bend is for?

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No, not tracks I like, I also like less fammous tracks. But the fammous tracks of the scene, they are below 500. If someone recommends tracks to gao newbies will he recommend him Electric universe - Galaxia or mfg - desert suns or Earth nation - An artificial dream (dragonfly rmx). No that are not the most fammous tracks. The fammous tracks are hallucinogen - LSD, Astral projection - Mahadeva and so on which appeared on most comps at taht time and I am sure these tracks are less than 500. you can consider them wellknown if you don´t like the word fammous.

Well there are 0 famous tracks! Ask a non goa fan if (s)he knows hallucinogen & they'll just stare blankly at you. I have a lot of friends that are heavily into EDM but if you mention artists like Hallucinogen, Astral Projection, Jaia, MFG, Etnica or Pleiadians they have no idea who they are.

But there are many tracks that are well known to goa fans. I think what you consider famous is what you know right?

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Well there are 0 famous tracks! Ask a non goa fan if (s)he knows hallucinogen & they'll just stare blankly at you. I have a lot of friends that are heavily into EDM but if you mention artists like Hallucinogen, Astral Projection, Jaia, MFG, Etnica or Pleiadians they have no idea who they are.

But there are many tracks that are well known to goa fans. I think what you consider famous is what you know right?

Infected mushroom is famous, and Skazi! :lol: No, but I agree with you there. However if you mention Shpongle, a lot of people know it :) (but thats also not goa)
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Infected mushroom is famous, and Skazi! :lol: No, but I agree with you there. However if you mention Shpongle, a lot of people know it :) (but thats also not goa)

I haven't met anyone outside of a psy party that would even recognise those names to be honest. I'm sure they are more famous in Europe but those aren't exactly Goa :lol:

 

Shpongle is something completely apart, even my dad knows shpongle :ph34r: There is much more in the chill out genre that appeals to more non goa fans I think.

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I meant well known tracks to goa fans ofcourse.

Depends on what kind of Goa you were into. There were so many scenes back then. Some people could not stand the Astral Projection style, where as others did not consider stuff on Trans'pact as GOA or even Psychedelic for that matter. Our scene is a very widely divided one, but still it has some kind of Unity...
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As far as I know the "Another World" album by AP was one of the most selling trance albums of all time? I know I've read this on a bunch of sites. Emphasis on trance, not goa trance. So that's a more widespread marketing area. I've yet to find out what the real number of sales is.. am curious really.. if the statement is true of course.

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I think what I mean is that much goa has a certain feeling-tone/sound/vibe to it - very often with similar sound effects (dunno how to describe the sound effects but I know them when I hear them)...

 

And the melodies seem always to be made of similar notes - generally higher pitched sounds...

 

Radii - I didn't included Hallucinogen in that group because to me Hallucinogen is very distinct - it is a sound that I find instantly recognizable...

 

I am not saying that artists like Pleiadians, Cosmosis, Astral Projection, Transwave, and Dimension 5 sound "the same" - I am saying that the difference between the way these artists sound and the way those artists and groups like Hallucinogen, Koxbox, Hux Flux, X-Dream, and Infected Mushroom sound is substantial...

 

Astral Projection bears far more in common with Cosmosis, for instance, than any artist does with Koxbox or Hallucinogen...

 

I'm also not saying that I don't think albums like IFO or Transdimensional aren't fantastic - I think they are fantastic albums, but I find them less artistically unique than albums like Dragon Tales, Classical Mushroom, or Cryptic Crunch...

 

I am making an effort, though, to get deeper into those old school goa albums - I have been reading people's posts in this thread and will admit that I am probably not hearing as much creativity in those albums as I could be, and so am having another listen to them... Transdimensional is really stunning I have to admit, and is definitely its own journey...

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It could have something to do with the equipment used back then. Less software, different groups having access to similiar stuff, etc. I read the Ott interview on this site and he has some good insight into equipment.

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from a purely mechanical way of thinking, i think old school goa tracks make the difference on good speakers

 

i agree they sound similar on poorer speakers, however there is another issue: many tracks are linked with special memories and moments. this makes them unique in every sense

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