rino Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Maximal "fuck you if you don't like it!!!" party music, which sounds like, and makes you feel their writing block blasting through the speakers. I.F.O. has the (back then) 4 members scraping out all the ideas in their brains and laying them over a compact disc surface. It is hard, relentless, window shattering music, but above all, absolutely unwilling to compromise its artisitc value and an undeniable intensity factor in return for some widespread appreciation. A cruncher of an album. My type of music. Dance until you die. Well, I will, you do whatever the fuck makes you happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Maximal "fuck you if you don't like it!!!" party music, which sounds like, and makes you feel their writing block blasting through the speakers. I.F.O. has the (back then) 4 members scraping out all the ideas in their brains and laying them over a compact disc surface. It is hard, relentless, window shattering music, but above all, absolutely unwilling to compromise its artisitc value and an undeniable intensity factor in return for some widespread appreciation. A cruncher of an album. My type of music. Dance until you die. Well, I will, you do whatever the fuck makes you happy. I'm with you all the way rino! For me IFO was and still is the definiton of Psytrance. Everything else sounds so much less psychedelic to my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 I'm with you all the way rino! For me IFO was and still is the definition of Psytrance. Everything else sounds so much less psychedelic to my ears. For me IFO was and still is the definition of Goatrance, not psytrance imo, there are albums with a higher level of psychedelic then IFO, taste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualia Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 IMO Pleiadians lack proper melodic structure, no catchy melodies to remember, just an infinite drive of short notes.. or sometimes the opposite.. with the same melody over and over again throughout the entire track, this was kind of evident as well in their Crop Circles project.. i mean like in that track Lunar Civilizations.. that melody just goes on and on on top of that its very high pitched, and it gets tiresome. This annoyed me so I had to post lol... The point of a lot of older trance was to be hypnotic and this was done by repeating melodies over and over and building on them bit by bit. A lot of this music was produced like that at the time and I enjoy that sound. An old head once told me that Posford isn't real psy and I thought this comment was sacriledge until I actually understood what psy trance was really about... The hypnotic element isn't as important anymore and certainly isn't as strong in a lot of modern psy or in Posfords music ever. Also, you can't really say Pleiadians lack proper melodic structure. Everyone made music using these "short notes" at the time. Melodically and structurally, the Pleiadians sound was perfect and highly complex. Andrea Rizzo was classically trained. All of the members of the original Etnica/Pleiadians had loads of industry and musical experience in fact. You have to realise the equipment these guys were working with and the kind of music their contemporaries were making. It really does stand out and it still is one of the best psy albums ever. Oh, and in my opinion Family of Light has more in common with pop trance than true psy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 This annoyed me so I had to post lol... The point of a lot of older trance was to be hypnotic and this was done by repeating melodies over and over and building on them bit by bit. A lot of this music was produced like that at the time and I enjoy that sound. An old head once told me that Posford isn't real psy and I thought this comment was sacriledge until I actually understood what psy trance was really about... The hypnotic element isn't as important anymore and certainly isn't as strong in a lot of modern psy or in Posfords music ever. Also, you can't really say Pleiadians lack proper melodic structure. Everyone made music using these "short notes" at the time. Melodically and structurally, the Pleiadians sound was perfect and highly complex. Andrea Rizzo was classically trained. All of the members of the original Etnica/Pleiadians had loads of industry and musical experience in fact. You have to realise the equipment these guys were working with and the kind of music their contemporaries were making. It really does stand out and it still is one of the best psy albums ever. Oh, and in my opinion Family of Light has more in common with pop trance than true psy. We are all entitled to our opinions i have my view on this clear since the 90´s and if Andrea is classicaly trained or not is something i couldnt care less about since its all programmed music and not something he/they played in real time.. and yeah its very commonly known that melodies were looped and repeated like a "mantra" to induce trance states in peoples minds and what ever. I stand firm to my opinions like a statue, that you will not be able to move.. so good luck! Thanks for trying to "teach" me something, anyway trying to discuss Pleiadians with hardcore Pleiadians fans is just like trying to discuss if Michael Jackson is a pedophile or not with his fans :wank: And yeah i DO know what type of equipment they worked with. On you it sounds as if these guys were on the same level as Mozart or something, man seriously take it for what it is, programmed music.. made by mouse clicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Sorry no offence.. but who the f*** said that Astral Projections music is random? This thread is drifting away and getting more and more offtopic and confused. err... you did... right here: The difference is that if you take a scale, for example the classical jewish one that astral projection and mfg used all the time and stick to that scale but add notes randomly within the scale, and stick to the timing as well it will sound GOOD however you do it. Thats how arabic/oriental scales work. I can make some examples with audio and midi as well if anyone is interested. We are all entitled to our opinions i have my view on this clear since the 90´s and if Andrea is classicaly trained or not is something i couldnt care less about since its all programmed music and not something he/they played in real time.. and yeah its very commonly known that melodies were looped and repeated like a "mantra" to induce trance states in peoples minds and what ever. I stand firm to my opinions like a statue, that you will not be able to move.. so good luck! Thanks for trying to "teach" me something, anyway trying to discuss Pleiadians with hardcore Pleiadians fans is just like trying to discuss if Michael Jackson is a pedophile or not with his fans :wank: And yeah i DO know what type of equipment they worked with. On you it sounds as if these guys were on the same level as Mozart or something, man seriously take it for what it is, programmed music.. made by mouse clicks. When you say man seriously take it for what it is, programmed music.. made by mouse clicks I wonder if you even listen to electronic music at all cause I cannot see a SINGLE electronic music track that does NOT fit your description... also if you take it that way, Mozart is just random scriblings of a pen on some paper that happened to sound good? :blink: I don't like to sound judgemental but I'm getting the feeling that you're trying to come off as knowing a lot more than you actually do. Just post some links to so-called random melodies in a scale that sound good whatever you do and I'll finance your next album Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 err... you did... right here: "The difference is that if you take a scale, for example the classical jewish one that astral projection and mfg used all the time and stick to that scale but add notes randomly within the scale, and stick to the timing as well it will sound GOOD however you do it. Thats how arabic/oriental scales work. I can make some examples with audio and midi as well if anyone is interested." I gave an example, i didnt say that Astral Projection did it randomly, i said: "if you take a scale" so misinterpretation there from your side, or maybe i explained it bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualia Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 We are all entitled to our opinions i have my view on this clear since the 90´s and if Andrea is classicaly trained or not is something i couldnt care less about since its all programmed music and not something he/they played in real time.. and yeah its very commonly known that melodies were looped and repeated like a "mantra" to induce trance states in peoples minds and what ever. I stand firm to my opinions like a statue, that you will not be able to move.. so good luck! Thanks for trying to "teach" me something, anyway trying to discuss Pleiadians with hardcore Pleiadians fans is just like trying to discuss if Michael Jackson is a pedophile or not with his fans :wank: And yeah i DO know what type of equipment they worked with. On you it sounds as if these guys were on the same level as Mozart or something, man seriously take it for what it is, programmed music.. made by mouse clicks. How old are you? About 15? You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder. I wasn't insulting so I'm wondering what has elicited this vitriolic response? I only gave my opinion in response to your sweeping and unfounded one. And of course everyone has an opinion... I wasn't trying to teach you anything. Besides, a fool set in his ways isn't ready to learn anything in any case. Programmed or not, intelligent composition requires skill and knowledge (which Rizzo had). This is fact. There are no opinions required. I'm sure Mozart would've dreamed of making music like this. If only they had sequencers in his time... Anyway, have a couple of these back: :wank: :wank: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Blablablablabla Ok a question, do you have a poster of Andrea Rizzo over your bed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 man seriously take it for what it is, programmed music.. made by mouse clicks. This is such bull shit, then Mozart's music is just some notes on a piece of paper... There is a difference in writing music between electronic and classical music, that's all... Edit: I agree with Lemmi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 actually I'm VERY interested... if what you say is true, that would basically mean that all my childhood heroes I cherished so much were just making random melodies??? I'd cry if that was true but I'd like to see an actual example so I can judge by myself. lol. you didn't figure out yet that the musical level of goa is pretty.........well....it's nothing more then just jamming around with the basics. The synth sounds are cool though. This is such bull shit, then Mozart's music is just some notes on a piece of paper... There is a difference in writing music between electronic and classical music, that's all... Mozart is disconnected from Phrase, his music flows and lives, it is much more layered then electronic music and all these layers have a specific function to another. Every music (sub)genre has it's set of rules. the set of rules makes up the musical style and if you stick to these rules it is just a matter of inspiration and coincidence to find something good. Every work of mozart mixes these rules of different types of composition, this is very unusual and clever. Goa; and electronic music in general, is very basic, alot of phrases, alot of arpeggio's, stick to one chord, one scale. There is a musical set of laws in electronic music, but mostly it's nothing more then playing around with scales and hoping for good luck. It is not a refined composition style like you can find in Classical music with complex and strict rules who only the genius can break and bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Personally I don't give a damn if Goa Trance is a music kind easy to made. It's how this music affects me that matters. I agree that writing classical music you must be at least genious, but if the music says nothing to me why do I have to care? That's the whole point IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Ugh. Oopie was right. :drama: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Personally I don't give a damn if Goa Trance is a music kind easy to made. It's how this music affects me that matters. I agree that writing classical music you must be at least genious, but if the music says nothing to me why do I have to care? That's the whole point IMO. yeah, you're absolutely right, music is music. I don't want to diss goatrance here, just trying to place it in perspective. Actually goa has a bit of a jazzy approach, jazz uses alot of polyrhythms, swung, arpeggio's and blu enotes. But that's about it when it comes to rules, so there is alot of space for improvisation and jam sessions. And that's what jazz is about, jazz artists can play very good & complex music just out of the blue in a jam. Goa trance has a simular consensus, and if you would try to play it on live instruments there also is alot of space for improvisation. And it doesn't only sound good, it's extremely fun if you can jam music instead of compose or program music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen dream Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 jazz is the only music :posford: the inspiration of the moment total freedom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 lol. you didn't figure out yet that the musical level of goa is pretty.........well....it's nothing more then just jamming around with the basics. The synth sounds are cool though. Mozart is disconnected from Phrase, his music flows and lives, it is much more layered then electronic music and all these layers have a specific function to another. Every music (sub)genre has it's set of rules. the set of rules makes up the musical style and if you stick to these rules it is just a matter of inspiration and coincidence to find something good. Every work of mozart mixes these rules of different types of composition, this is very unusual and clever. Goa; and electronic music in general, is very basic, alot of phrases, alot of arpeggio's, stick to one chord, one scale. There is a musical set of laws in electronic music, but mostly it's nothing more then playing around with scales and hoping for good luck. It is not a refined composition style like you can find in Classical music with complex and strict rules who only the genius can break and bend. +1 Anyway this topic is doomed to end in flame wars, and that is probably what the thread starter intended and knew when he/she whatever made it. Whats next a topic about religion? But while we are on the sensitive topic of this IFO album, one thing i wonder is: how much do you people consider this album to be worth in cash? And develope a bit why you think its worth what it is worth today. On discogs i see it for sale now for the ridiculous price of: 140 euros.. what is it that determine the value? Is it the quality of the music, or is it the rarity.. or what other factors you might find interesting to discuss. Im sure someone here must have sold or bought this particular album for some high price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunwolf Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 lol. you didn't figure out yet that the musical level of goa is pretty.........well....it's nothing more then just jamming around with the basics. The synth sounds are cool though. Mozart is disconnected from Phrase, his music flows and lives, it is much more layered then electronic music and all these layers have a specific function to another. Every music (sub)genre has it's set of rules. the set of rules makes up the musical style and if you stick to these rules it is just a matter of inspiration and coincidence to find something good. Every work of mozart mixes these rules of different types of composition, this is very unusual and clever. Goa; and electronic music in general, is very basic, alot of phrases, alot of arpeggio's, stick to one chord, one scale. There is a musical set of laws in electronic music, but mostly it's nothing more then playing around with scales and hoping for good luck. It is not a refined composition style like you can find in Classical music with complex and strict rules who only the genius can break and bend. Yes but... goa trance tends to be more complex than most other types of electronic music (that I know of at least!). If you remove the beat & quadruple the number of layers and have them played by an orchestra you're doing a very similar thing to what Mozart did. On the other hand if you take 1/4 the layers and make minimal or whatever else you're probably lessening the skill involved. (You can just tinker with a couple layers and come up with something that sounds catchy; more layers makes it practically impossible.) Goa trance still requires talent -- there is no doubt about this, just the exact amount! It's not easy to coordinate a handful of layers at the same time and make them all work together to produce something amazing. Weaker stuff often has random sounds thrown in that don't really add to the music! The better stuff is creative and layered and it all comes together! Many other types of electronic music are just about a couple layers and/or a beat! Looking at how fast they get produced is it's a very rough estimate as to the quality. There are very few GOOD goa groups that released multiple albums a year every year. Some albums are multiple years in the making. (Note this can indicate lack of talent as well.) In the end you must keep in mind Mozart was just one of the best of many many classical producers. Similarly there are many many goa trance producers. While I'll agree goa trance takes much less talent to produce due to it's relatively low complexity, I think those Dimension 5 guys (includes hunab ku and ra) and Transwave are amongst the higher quality goa trance producers. You must also keep in mind that the times have changed and in this nihilist age electronic music is largely marketed to low class people with no taste. This is most clearly evident in the shift to psytrance, but goa trance was not exactly produced for an aristocracy either! -- though definitely largely for more spiritual/mindful and tasteful people. Thus the best may not be the most popular. Indeed almost everyone I know "IN REAL LIFE" would rather listen to catchy tunes by Tiesto and can't stand to listen to goa trance! And to rant on... I would be an idiot to want to change this because I would rather than the mass of idiots don't listen to my higher music and stick to their surface shit. Also I should mention that many people who listen to goa trance also prefer the shittier stuff to the more skillful stuff.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 lol. you didn't figure out yet that the musical level of goa is pretty.........well....it's nothing more then just jamming around with the basics. The synth sounds are cool though. Mozart is disconnected from Phrase, his music flows and lives, it is much more layered then electronic music and all these layers have a specific function to another. Every music (sub)genre has it's set of rules. the set of rules makes up the musical style and if you stick to these rules it is just a matter of inspiration and coincidence to find something good. Every work of mozart mixes these rules of different types of composition, this is very unusual and clever. Goa; and electronic music in general, is very basic, alot of phrases, alot of arpeggio's, stick to one chord, one scale. There is a musical set of laws in electronic music, but mostly it's nothing more then playing around with scales and hoping for good luck. It is not a refined composition style like you can find in Classical music with complex and strict rules who only the genius can break and bend. ok mr smarty pants (and all the others who think that goatrance is so easy to make). If it's that easy to make then why not become the next Pleiadians or Astral Projection??? You'd make thousands of euros by having fun and journey around the world. It's every goatrancer's dream yet there you are, stuck with doing a 9 to 5 job and just fiddling around with some synths in your bedroom without actually releasing anything. Clearly this is proof that it's not as easy as you guys make it sound... Personally I fiddle around with Reason and I find it VERY hard to make something worthwhile. Agreed, sometimes you can stumble on an interesting melody just by randomly clicking on the note bars, still from that to making a whole track (album?) that sounds good is a whole different ballgame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 +1 Anyway this topic is doomed to end in flame wars, and that is probably what the thread starter intended and knew when he/she whatever made it. Whats next a topic about religion? But while we are on the sensitive topic of this IFO album, one thing i wonder is: how much do you people consider this album to be worth in cash? And develope a bit why you think its worth what it is worth today. On discogs i see it for sale now for the ridiculous price of: 140 euros.. what is it that determine the value? Is it the quality of the music, or is it the rarity.. or what other factors you might find interesting to discuss. Im sure someone here must have sold or bought this particular album for some high price. because it's a CLASSIC... Yes and also rarity is another important factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunwolf Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 because it's a CLASSIC... Yes and also rarity is another important factor.Yes if people have a rare album they don't want to admit it's garbage because then less people will want it and they will not be in such a high position as having what others want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 yeah, you're absolutely right, music is music. I don't want to diss goatrance here, just trying to place it in perspective. Actually goa has a bit of a jazzy approach, jazz uses alot of polyrhythms, swung, arpeggio's and blu enotes. But that's about it when it comes to rules, so there is alot of space for improvisation and jam sessions. And that's what jazz is about, jazz artists can play very good & complex music just out of the blue in a jam. Goa trance has a simular consensus, and if you would try to play it on live instruments there also is alot of space for improvisation. And it doesn't only sound good, it's extremely fun if you can jam music instead of compose or program music. Sorry but goatrance and jazz is like day and night, cant be compared but i agree goa is not some divinie music that only godlike creatures can make.. its very simple music in the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Yes if people have a rare album they don't want to admit it's garbage because then less people will want it and they will not be in such a high position as having what others want. Dude, many people have agreed for a decade that IFO is something special, longtime before it became a rarity so it's much more than just a bunch of greedy discogs sellers who want to make a quick buck... Sorry but goatrance and jazz is like day and night, cant be compared but i agree goa is not some divinie music that only godlike creatures can make.. its very simple music in the end yes and how many records have you released latley so you can judge, mr Towelie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 yes and how many records have you released latley mr Towelie? What does releasing album have to do with this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunwolf Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Dude, many people have agreed for a decade that IFO is something special, longtime before it became a rarity so it's much more than just a bunch of greedy discogs sellers who want to make a quick buck...That's not what I meant or said. Anyways I do think it's a 5/5 album (this is a stupidly low precision scale!) just not the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 What does releasing album have to do with this ? well you say it's easy to make so if it's that easy why don't you release some music then? And don't tell me that you prefer your dayjob to becoming the next psytrance star... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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