bazooko Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Funnily enough, we got 1 !!! gig outside of Israel AFTER the release of that album, and that was half a year ago ( means 1.5 years after the album was released ) in switzerland, and still with relatively "old" music for the trance scene we rocked the house. 557049[/snapback] i was there. and yes, you rocked the house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProSect Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I have nothing to add to the words of Kristian, Colin and Yuli. It's all pretty messed. Good luck Kristian, hope that brings you more joy. ND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 (To Moni) I'm not so much a fan of the idea that if a person is a part-time artist that it makes them a hobbyist. In the end it is about what is created, not about the amount of time one spends on it or how one earns one's money. 556791[/snapback] Yeah, I don't agree with Moni either. It's especially because you can't live off making music that you have to have a 'real' job. Don't degrade it and call it a hobby (cause that's what you're doing. I think that if people could earn a living with it, they wouldn't need that other job... right?) 556802[/snapback] I have these 2 friends: - one has a well paid job, and does music in his free time, cause he likes it, and it's fun. he dj's at parties for free and even pays his own transportation and stuff. - one has a decently paid job. music is what he wants to do, as music is his life, but music doesn't put food on his table, so he spends more time with his job, and less time making music, and being depressed and unhappy. I said that artists shouldn't have to have two jobs to be able to get by. So what are you disaggreeing with? The fact that for some people music making is a hobby? Making music in your free time isn't quite a "career", especially after you have been at work for 10-12 hours. Anyway, some are probably in a good situation, where they have a job that pays well, and maybe the job isn't requiring you to work overtime, and you consider your free time as plenty enough to make music. Sorry for calling it a hobby. I rushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Radi is on the case... We can all relax! 556988[/snapback] to elysium - good luck kris and do whatever you feel is best for you as an artist ! oh and - i bet that you and elysium project will be just like you and psynews - youre allways coming back [joking !] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Altho I had some funky history with Kristian in the past I can really feel for what he is saying. 2 years and a bit ago I have released the last BLT album with the drummer Danni Makov. This CD got great reviews all over and almost no negative ones.. We toured Israel like no live act before us ( definitely not in the price range that includes 2 ppl with a full drum setup / special stage and lighting for the drummer sometimes etc.. ) Funnily enough, we got 1 !!! gig outside of Israel AFTER the release of that album, and that was half a year ago ( means 1.5 years after the album was released ) in switzerland, and still with relatively "old" music for the trance scene we rocked the house. Why I tell u that? Because of the simple reason that artists sit at home and work. They work hard and it demands a lot of guts and a lot of personal sacrifice to do this. Especially for those that put their heart and passion into it, and do something with a meaning. Since the CD industry is non existant @ the moment, gigs is the place to show your art and make some money - I do belive that those that music making is their life are intitled to call music their job ( as long as they really doing it all the time ) So, to finish my BLT part of story, really good music, and surely one of the BEST live shows u gonna get in our trance scene, went down to drain just because the scene was stingy enough and close minded enough about music that doesnt sound EXACTLY like other zillion of tracks. And YO - the live ROCKS u should have seen some of those parties we played. Nowadays I must say I am much more satisfied and perform much more abroad. I must say as well that I make style that is much more to my liking but also I am not booking my shit on my own - this is MESSAGE TO KRISTIAN.. I learned I need someone to deal the money thing for me, as I cannot sell myself properly. Anyway, as I know music is your way of life, as it is mine too... You will make electronic music and not in a long time u will be back with nu tunes. My 15 paisa 557049[/snapback] Off Topic: Are you THE Perfect Stranger? If you are, YOU FUCKING ROCK!! Your music is sooooooo frikkin good. I played FIVE of your tracks last gig I had! If you are NOT Perfect Stranger, You still rock with your post hehehe and your nick is coo too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rezwalker Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 too much blah blah... IMO the serious point is here : "I am angry at you the labels because: - You tell me to do music your way or get lost." I totaly agree! this are the results of this strange (at least) behaviour from labels last years... GOA-trance is forbidden(!) nowdays... a big big SHAME to the most of labels...( i speak generally and not especially the behaviour against Elysium) a BIG respect for ur music Kris p.s your new track "the light" sounds so good compared with this crappy scene nowdays.. real artists makes the different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Stranger Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Now that completely boggles my mind... that was definatly one of the best albums in the last few years, and it could hardly be a better 'resume' for a live show... just ONE show abroad, 1.5 years after? There is definatly something wrong with this. 557075[/snapback] We performed live few times in Germany and Brazil @ the year before the album came out.. After that we had this only gig NY 2006 in Swiss. That is the stupid truth.. And it is all about the fact that most promoters will not risk their venue by paying BLT live the same money they can pay a star full on DJ. Unfortunately since we were doing something that involved real live element it added a lot of expenses to any production that had wished to bring us. But that offtopic - altho it comes together well with what Kristian said about organizers that prefer the safe side and to book once more those overbooked DJs that will play all those tunes again and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Hey there Kris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 We performed live few times in Germany and Brazil @ the year before the album came out.. After that we had this only gig NY 2006 in Swiss. That is the stupid truth.. And it is all about the fact that most promoters will not risk their venue by paying BLT live the same money they can pay a star full on DJ. Unfortunately since we were doing something that involved real live element it added a lot of expenses to any production that had wished to bring us. But that offtopic - altho it comes together well with what Kristian said about organizers that prefer the safe side and to book once more those overbooked DJs that will play all those tunes again and again. 557270[/snapback] I can understand that you want a safecard when you are running a party, but on the most parties there are 3 or more safecards.... so instead of booking RajaRam and 2 more hot cool djs, they could spend the same money in getting some GOOD acts in there. Neelix, Perfect Stranger, Behind Blue Eyes, Elysium... it will most definately bring some new flavor to the parties! Oh well... things might change very soon! Lets see what the future holds from the EsknetLABS and Colo-Caos records Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapinho Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Moni; I just thought it sounded degrading to call musicmaking a hobby, when most people would simply make music all the way, if they could live off it... It's not a career in the money-making-sense but I guess it is on a spiritual level (smt like that). Maybe we should make a list of underestimated artists and everbody that agrees that the situation is fucked up, should at least book on of them once... Another safecard (imo) is putting a so-called "live act" on the flyer. It sounds like a bigger party when you have a live act in the line up... even though the majority of the times the acts aren't really live. Could anyone explain what is the cause of not being booked. Whee, i'm having a big deja vu here, think i asked it before... But seriously: other than people playing the safe side. Why don't you get booked? Don't people know your name well enough? Don't you suck up to enough people? Or is it really because most party organizers only want 'big' names? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Why don't you get booked? Don't people know your name well enough? Don't you suck up to enough people? Or is it really because most party organizers only want 'big' names? 557345[/snapback] A mixture of all of them. The scene also has grown bigger since this all started. Before almost always the local djs played at parties, now its 4 big names and 2 local djs. Eventhough the local djs are very good, almos always better than the bigname djs.... This is a neverending story though, and like in any musicgenre, we have bad sides and good sides. My suggestion is that WE the people that HAVE the opinion that something is screwed in our beloved scene start to WORK TOGETHER. Im well up for new collaborations, new ideas and to create a new global team, that can kick the current teams ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ov3rdos3 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 A mixture of all of them. The scene also has grown bigger since this all started. Before almost always the local djs played at parties, now its 4 big names and 2 local djs. Eventhough the local djs are very good, almos always better than the bigname djs.... This is a neverending story though, and like in any musicgenre, we have bad sides and good sides. My suggestion is that WE the people that HAVE the opinion that something is screwed in our beloved scene start to WORK TOGETHER. Im well up for new collaborations, new ideas and to create a new global team, that can kick the current teams ass. 557369[/snapback] One thing about the parties in cape town, besides being small, they mostly play local DJ's instead of big names, and to be honest, The best music ive ever heard were played by local Djs in cape town. Some of the local Dj's ive heard in cape town pwn big name djs. They are more about the music than the fame. Something hard to find these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 One thing about the parties in cape town, besides being small, they mostly play local DJ's instead of big names, and to be honest, The best music ive ever heard were played by local Djs in cape town. Some of the local Dj's ive heard in cape town pwn big name djs. They are more about the music than the fame. Something hard to find these days. 557373[/snapback] Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTP Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I will tell you a little (long) story. About 3 months ago I get a booking at a the Tchamla Kingdom Festival in Bulgaria. Yes let's put a name on the Festival so it's just not a "story". After all I really dont give much for the people behind the Festival so I got no moral problem by mentioning their name. Back to the story. We agreed that I will play a Elysium liveset and that I of course get paid and recieve a flighticket. So far so good and I really look forward to go and play in their Beautiful country and also meet some of my good old artist and DJ friends again. Basically I am really looking forward to this Festival and I trust the organiser (Peter) who seem very friendly after many many nice chats on ICQ. A few weeks later the first dissapointment arrive. I wont be playing on the mainstage but have been put to play in the chillout because my music is chillout according to the organsiers. Now the liveset they have listened to, and in my own opinion about my music, there is not a single track thats even close to be chillout. The slowest track in my liveset is 133 bpm and my fastest is 142 bpm. To your info I can tell that out of my many releases over the years only 2% of my music has been chillout. Now because I really like to go and play, meet people, have a good time and meet my old friends I accept and begin the long hard work it is to transform a already finished liveset with remixes of old tracks and new material into a chillout liveset. Basiclly this mean I had to start from zero and create a total new liveset. So I used many weeks in the studio to make a interesting and refreshing new liveset with new music and totally re-done remix of my old music. At the same time I turned down 2 other gigs playing DJ under the Holm & Andersen name because I already had a booking at Tchamla Kingdom. Now all along I have been asking what date I was scheduled to play so I could tell them when i wanted to arrive and go back home. I did not have time to stay all 7 days because I am busy with Graphic Design jobs and also remixes and making tracks as Kris Andersen and Holm & Andersen. But I was never given a straight answer and was constantly told that I would get an answer very very soon. So I waited and waited and as time went on the guy dissapeared from ICQ and I heard nothing from him for a long time. So I started to send e-mails to to their e-mail address but never got a reply. A few weeks ago he finally appear on ICQ and tell me all is cool and that he need my passport number etc. I still ask him to give me my schedule date before he book my flight but again I dont get any date. At this point I start o get suspisious but after taling to otehr artists and DJ's playing there I get reassured that they have recieved their tickets etc. So I tell myself that he will be back very soon with everything organised. BUT he dont get back to me! A week ago he once again pop up and womba womba the next "surprise" is handed over to me. As he put it: "We never agreed to that you get paid to play live". I am astonished and tell him i can show him the exact ICQ chat where we agree that I get paid to play and where I told him that I never play for free unless it is a benefit party but that they can pay me what they can afford but that my price is minimum 300 Euro. His respons is that it must have been a misunderstanding. between us. Yeah sure! So because I can tell they probably wont be able to pay much, due to high fees the have to pay to the MEGA stars, I offer him to play live for my minimum fee of 300 Euro.. yes 300! (So dont tell me it is all about the money) He tell me that we will work it out and that it is not a problem and that he is sure it is ok. So I wait again and again I hear nothing from him. So two days ago I finally have had enough of waiting and waiting and I contact another guy (Ben) in the organisation via help from another DJ who's playing there and finally I get the "main guy" on msn after I have send him 3 e-mails he never answered back. New surprise! Peter the guy I have been talking to all along on ICQ is NOT involved in making bookings. He just help them with differnt things. yes I am listed on their website to play live but still this new guy Ben deny that there was ever an agreemt for me to get paid. But what a "nice" guy this ben turn out to be. I do not recall I have ever met a more disrespectful and arrogant person in my life. He would not admit their mistake and he had no symphaty for me and did not care one bit that I have worked my ass off to make a nice liveset for his Festival and that I have lost 2 other gigs because I was scheduled to play at his Festival. All he could say was that it is a misunderstanding and that I was never promised to be paid. He also continued that it was my own fault since I did not contact him before (hmmmmm ok). Then he went on about that i did not understand him and that he would make it up to me "next year" etc etc. The normal bull to get rid of me. At no point does he offer me to come and play anyway and pay my flight ticket. All he does is coming up with endless bad excuses. So I end telling the guy to literaly "fuck off". End of a long story. This is just one example of many over the last two years and part of why I have had it with this scene and have decided to leave the scene behind. If I was out for the money I would not suggest to be paid 300 Euro for a liveset knowing other artists and DJ's are paid 5-6 times (some probably 10 times as much) more than me at the same Festival. But where do one draw the line and say enough is enough? I have done it now by leaving the psytrance scene and concentrate on music where I get way more respect and get treated fairly. And my whole idea with my first "statment" was to start a debate and hopefully to make other artist see that they are not alone and that it is ok for them to to get out of the bushes and also raise their voices. Maybe just maybe then people would listen and understand what is going on and then maybe just maybe things could changed a little. Kristian 556769[/snapback] ouch You know why? That is because there are "newbie" organizers out there who are naive and have no experience and just think it's "cool" to organize a festival. "Hippie Shanti Style", you know? As it is in our scene ... many people are naive and unexperienced and their "dream" is to organize something, contribute to the scene ... and then they aren't motivated 100%, don't calculate well or fuck something up or whatever. I mean, I don't wanna degrade them and their good intentions, but there are many cases where it goes like that. Of course this shouldn't be a generalisation in any way - you know how many festivals/parties are actually organised with a lot of profession. But just love, care and a good heart don't guarantee that it goes well, you know? Again, I don't want to degrade anything here and I don't want to generalize in any way - it's actually the other way round from my experience ... I have been to hardly any party that wasn't good (although I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, you know) - but you can't deny that there are people in our scene who have this somewhat naive attitude (in fact the characteristic "beautiful world" attitude where everybody is your friend and where everything is so cool and smooth and where it is so easy to organize something ... I don't wanna use the word "hippie attitude", you know, but this is actually what I'm talking about) and think they can set up something big when in fact they neither have the experience nor the perspective. And that is the reason why in the end there goes so much wrong sometimes ... even if they are nice persons and all is cool - when they lack perspective and profession those things can happen. And that's the thing with our scene. Of course there are many talented organizers there - the good experiences of artists and the audience on many festivals speak for it ... and sometimes it even works with the attitude although people lack experience and it all goes well. But sometimes it doesn't. And well ... then things like that happen. Poor Kris. I wish you good luck with your future projects. And it's good that you continue making music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 @ RTP Actually the Tchamla organisers are not newbees's. They are just very arrogant people who lick the big artists asses and step on those artists they dont count as being "cool" enough. I also highly disagree with that there are a lot of professional organisers out there. Maybe I have been extremely unlucky but show me one professional Festival organisers in our scene or one that actually care to book alternative artists and DJ's than the normal "Top 20"killarghhh or standard progressive power pop artists. I sure have a hard time finding them and that even goes for big organisers like greedy Soulclipse (thanks for nothing), Boom who dont want to pay me for playing, Voov who did not even want to pay my ticket to go and play, Samothraki who told me my music sucked. Should I go on? So as I said. Bye bye scene. No more bull for me. I hope other talented artist also leave for hopefully better days in other scenes. They do not deserve such disrespect and crap from labels and organisers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phobium Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Why don't you get booked? Don't people know your name well enough? Don't you suck up to enough people? Or is it really because most party organizers only want 'big' names? 557345[/snapback] I my case it's a combination of my name not being known and me not knowing enough people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I my case it's a combination of my name not being known and me not knowing enough people. 557413[/snapback] Join the colo caos team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Join the colo caos team 557442[/snapback] Mate maybe you should listen to his music before inviting him in No offense to you though phobium. I dont know your music and it might be the most awsome thing in the world (I hope so) But we struck a up to date point here. That's exactly what is going on at the moment. Labels desperately seeking artists to release. So desperately they overlook the quality factor and release almost everything (within the killarghhh zone and power Neo full on progressive zone) as long as it got a kik and a bass. Not that I think that of you Nemo. You know that Just a little provocation that does have a point to debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Mate maybe you should listen to his music before inviting him in No offense to you though phobium. I dont know your music and it might be the most awsome thing in the world (I hope so) But we struck a up to date point here. That's exactly what is going on at the moment. Labels desperately seeking artists to release. So desperately they overlook the quality factor and release almost everything (within the killarghhh zone and power Neo full on progressive zone) as long as it got a kik and a bass. Not that I think that of you Nemo. You know that Just a little provocation that does have a point to debate 557450[/snapback] Of course I would have to listen and see if it fits our profile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 oh and @ doze yes I like House. Live with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ov3rdos3 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 oh and @ doze yes I like House. Live with it 557457[/snapback] I can live with progressive house. But i'd have to draw the line there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Moni; I just thought it sounded degrading to call musicmaking a hobby, when most people would simply make music all the way, if they could live off it... It's not a career in the money-making-sense but I guess it is on a spiritual level (smt like that). 557345[/snapback] Here's my take: To me there's a separation between one's artistic intentions and how one wants to earn one's living. One can have very grandiose intentions for one's art, yet still be a waiter for money. Moni may or may not have slipped with the term "hobby", but a hobby is for craftspeople, those who have no artistic thrust, those who aren't trying to adjust the world socio-politically with their work, according to their beliefs. Art is a state of mind as well as action, is a turbulent forward motion, no matter what one does for a living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 But we struck a up to date point here. That's exactly what is going on at the moment. Labels desperately seeking artists to release. So desperately they overlook the quality factor and release almost everything (within the killarghhh zone and power Neo full on progressive zone) as long as it got a kik and a bass. 557450[/snapback] oh, come on, that is so NOT true, there is tons of good music released lately that is far away from mainstream full on killargh famous artists... Finnish music is being released more and more, Swedish forests sounds and experimental stuff, beautiful ambient, and of course we try to keep the melodic goa trance part alive together with some other labels (like Kagdilia and Tranceform), and believe me, we get more and more good promos, clearly more people try to make something else... I know there is TONS and loads of shitty music lately, but try to see light in the dark, it's the first time in years I managed to find 20 interesting albums in 6 months which I really like! I have the feeling there is some kind of positive evolution, Full On is definately popular, but not total dominating anymore (and it's going more and more commercial anyway, so I'm not sure it will be a part of the psychedelic trance scene for long...), dark trance is much bigger now, and finnish music is rising too... there are some very good goa trance albums planned as well, and the progressive trance/house crossover is doing well too, altough I have the feeling it is splitting from the in your face-dance parties... Maybe I'm just too positive, but I want to see things in perspective, not all is bad... really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 (edited) oh, come on, that is so NOT true, there is tons of good music released lately that is far away from mainstream full on killargh famous artists... Finnish music is being released more and more, Swedish forests sounds and experimental stuff, beautiful ambient, and of course we try to keep the melodic goa trance part alive together with some other labels (like Kagdilia and Tranceform), and believe me, we get more and more good promos, clearly more people try to make something else... I know there is TONS and loads of shitty music lately, but try to see light in the dark, it's the first time in years I managed to find 20 interesting albums in 6 months which I really like! I have the feeling there is some kind of positive evolution, Full On is definately popular, but not total dominating anymore (and it's going more and more commercial anyway, so I'm not sure it will be a part of the psychedelic trance scene for long...), dark trance is much bigger now, and finnish music is rising too... there are some very good goa trance albums planned as well, and the progressive trance/house crossover is doing well too, altough I have the feeling it is splitting from the in your face-dance parties... Maybe I'm just too positive, but I want to see things in perspective, not all is bad... really 557515[/snapback] I'll try and reply as clear as I can. Lets boil it down to this. Music under 145 bpm is not really welcome at the mainstages (or any stages actually) at most Festivals or parties. Not even the Festivals or parties that invite The Suomi artists, Swedish Forest Artists etc. Not even here in Sweden! They all make fast music too and that is why they get bookings - Show me any Festival or party organiser that would book any of them if they speeded down to 130-133 bpm There is no room for slower music unless it is psy chillout which I find to be more and more a cliche of shanti baba lets all try to be ethnic and have a sitar playing and as I said I do not consider myself a chill out artist I never was one with Elysium. So I really never wanted chllout bookings. Leave that to those who are much better at it than me. Then there's the progressive side at many festivals (most of the time pushed into off hours or small non quality stages so it wont interfere with the psy crowd) where we mostly find the most "commercial" names to be booked = the progressive trance artists that now a days also seem to go faster and faster and less progressive and much more Fullonish I saw Atmos live not so long ago and he certantly also has turned up the speed button So has almost anyone else of the popular Festival artists with some exceptions. Wonder why So no there is no room for those who do not fit the fast genre and try to make their own unique music. One side note.. How come none of the Belgian Festival or party organisers ever booked me (except for you one time where I could not be there)? I could easily say that I have been a part of the artist released via Belgian labels that put Belgium on the goa/psy trance map...Just a question since your organsiers seem to be very "goa'ish" Oh and I actually contacted Rhakti Deï Festival this year for a booking... Guess what.. They did not bother to answer me back Food for though. Edited June 28, 2006 by Elysium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Maybe I'm just too positive, but I want to see things in perspective, not all is bad... really 557515[/snapback] We need positive thoughts in these pesimistic times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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