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About sharing mp3s


cangrejo

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I am a sharer.

Mp3 revolution has pros and cons...

It's not bad bying some cds now and then..[although even if i bought them i would rip them and share them the day after eheh ;) ]

 

Don't tell me your friend will come and listen to a cd in your house, he'll ask for a copy and you will say "no go fuck yourself or buy the cd "..

:huh:

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I am a sharer.

Mp3 revolution has pros and cons...

It's not bad bying some cds now and then..[although even if i bought them i would rip them and share them the day after eheh ;) ]

 

Don't tell me your friend will come and listen to a cd in your house, he'll ask for a copy and you will say "no go fuck yourself or buy the cd "..

:huh:

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I'd say that :D "Go buy the CD-R so I can burn it for ya"

 

I don't really know why I'm not buying any psytrance cds. I'm pretty new to the whole scene and I used to buy some CDs back in the days when I listened to other genres of music...

I guess that I don't really have much trust in the music industry as a whole, that's probably why. The artist'll only get 10% (I'm just guessing here) or so so what's 10 beers for me is just 1 for him. :D I'll buy him a beer at a party instead, or 5, or slip him a note in the underwear like you do to strippers... :lol:

 

Sure I don't know how much work the label does to market the artist, but I bet it isn't much, because it's not often I see psytrance ads :ph34r:

 

Now I have to get some sleep :P I'm too tired to think anyway. Gluuuuurgggblhghhhhavbaaaaaaaahhhhhhhb

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzZZzzZzZ

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if i had to choose between giving my money EMI, or any of those big megacorporations and any psy trance label, i know where i'm spending my cents down... cause i know who needs it more...

 

Most psy trance labels don't work with the same numbers the smallers do. Nobody is twisting arms here to sign people for one label or another. Now more than ever artists are free choose what road they go with or if they open their own labels. Distribution for me is the big problem. but labels and artists here are working simbiotically to survive... so please stop kidding yourself it's ok download music, cause next time you see the artist you have already promissed to buy him a beer (or 5... that's just lame, sorry.) not telling what to do, you just making sure you are kidding yourself here.

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DISCLAIMER: IF YOU READ THIS POST YOU AGREE TO THE TERMS THAT YOU WILL SEND ME LOTS OF DOLLARS OR ELSE YOU'LL SPEND LOTS OF TIME IN JAIL BABY!

 

if i had to choose between giving my money EMI, or any of those big megacorporations and any psy trance label,  i know where i'm spending my cents down... cause i know who needs it more...

 

Most psy trance labels don't work with the same numbers the smallers do. Nobody is twisting arms here to sign people for one label or another. Now more than ever artists are free choose what road they go with or if they open their own labels. Distribution for me is the big problem. but labels and artists here are working simbiotically to survive... so please stop kidding yourself it's ok download music, cause next time you see the artist you have already promissed to buy him a beer (or 5... that's just lame, sorry.) not telling what to do, you just making sure you are kidding yourself here.

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I don't want to give money to businessmen. I just want to listen to music and I believe that welfare money is more than enough to live and make music. There, I said it.

 

Edit: I'm sorry, I mean other things, but I can't explain, I'm already asleep, was just up looking for my camera (don't ask me why). I'll try to explain tomorrow my stand-point. Or the day after, or never. It doesn't matter anyway since we don't really have a choice. I'll try to keep promoting artists to my friends and thereby adding little coin to their pockets, but I won't spend my money. HEHE, I'M USING MY FRIENDS AND THE ARTISTS! :ph34r: What a stupid comment cangrejo.

 

[...]buy him a beer (or 5... that's just lame, sorry.)[...]

:lol:

5 beers, that's more than you've ever paid an artist unless you've bought more than 5 records. Lal, not like I ever would buy anyone 5 beers, but I'd rather keep my 10 beers than giving 9 to some businessman. Shame that the artist is the one to suffer, but I think my well being is more important than theirs. I mean, after all, I have to take care of myself. Maybe when I become rich from saving all this money I can buy a synth and make my own music. And then I'll have a website with mp3 downloads plus if you want high quality you can buy the damn CD.

 

It's all a load of crap anyway. mp3 = free promotion so that the artist gets famous and invited to play at parties. Oh I sure know that it won't be enough money.

 

This whole mp3 discussion is pointless though, because if everyone said it was ok to download noone would buy their CDs and they would die from starvation.

 

STOP DOWNLOADING NOW, SEND A FEW $$$ IN THE MAIL TO YOUR "LOCAL" RECORD SHOP.

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5 beers, that's more than you've ever paid an artist unless you've bought more than 5 records. Lal, not like I ever would buy anyone 5 beers, but I'd rather keep my 10 beers than giving 9 to some businessman.

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so how many beers have you actually bought to an artist? what's the count so far?

 

that was my point...

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LE LOTUS BLEU my point was to prove to people that internet users who download my compilations through ftp servers or using other P2P programs are acting illegaly against my label (i just use myself as an example but i am reffering to all labels),i had to say all these things because some people think that downloading from an ftp server a compilation is not illegal,hope all is clear on that issue.Ofcourse in some countries the laws on the issue are more complicated but more or less it is illegal to download a cd from the internet in most of the worlds countries.

 

Now concerning my actions against them.First of all my main point in this whole topic is not to stop people from downloading music,this is impossible i guess.Like i have said many times in this topic though what i am trying to make people understand is that they must keep a balance between buying originals and downloading mp3s,this is my main goal in this topic and hope that some people will get touched by my words.

 

I dont think that even if i wanted to sue people who download my music it would be possible to do it.First of all i have no way of knowing who is downloading my releases and who buys them in original and like you said its not easy and wise in terms of money to start making lawsuits against people all around the world.

 

By the way the government has the right to get the personal information of every internet user around the globe from his internet provider when that user is suspected to be involved in any kind of illegal actions using his pc and internet from abusing other users on the internet to illegal downloading or software programs sharing or trading.All you need is a citizen or government official accusation and a prosecutor who has the right to access every info about everyone.The same applies for mobile phone accounts.

 

CINOS my friend got convicted of owning illegal mp3 files (which i guess is not as bad as getting caught for illegal sharing) and i have heard many cases where the IRS Force and Mechanical Rights Organisations have invaded clubs and open the cases of various djs and gave them enough of problems when they discovered in their cd cases music that came from illegal sharing,copying or downloading.I can recall a case in Italy where a dj got caught in Rome for owning illegal files in his case and got a very big fine and also another case in UK which you can read in this BBC News link where two people got a big fine two for making files available on the net. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4653662.stm

So like you see CINOS things are not as you think they are ;)

 

CANGREJO the middle hands as you refer when speaking about labels are not here just to sell the music but also to do other things like promoting the music,making it available to more people,help the artists get gigs and improve their music and finance them,organise events and a lot more.Are you sure that labels should dissappear?I dont think so.

 

GOAZZZZ my friends case is well over and the sentence is final and already paid and yes it was the first case convincted in Greece like you said.I dont know what else has happened since then though and never heard another case but afterall i am not very much into newspapers and law cases news to know whats going on ;)

 

TRAVELLER you hardly see any good and already established artists speak or complain about anything on the internet and specially on public forums.Just think how many posts you can find on forums by people like Hallucinogen,Prometheus,GMS,Raja Ram,Deedrah,Dino Psaras,Son Kite,Joti,Tristan,Electric Universe,Space Tribe,Astrix,Infected Mushroom,Etnica and more.I mean if all these people got more than 100 posts alltogether on all the forums around the net i will be very suprised,hope you get my point ;)

 

And last but not least CANGREJO you dont want to give your money to businessmen but i guess you own an internet connection and a pc,you own a car or a motorcycle,you have a microwave oven,you got some clothes from big brands and you got a soundsystem in your home.I guess you dont consider Intel,AMD,Asus,Volkswagon,Yamaha,Nike,Adidas,Miele and Sony as 'businessmen' thats why you pay for their products,the fact that you just cant download an Intel Processor or a Miele microwave oven is just a small detail i guess...

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CINOS my friend got convicted of owning illegal mp3 files (which i guess is not as bad as getting caught for illegal sharing) and i have heard many cases where the IRS Force and Mechanical Rights Organisations have invaded clubs and open the cases of various djs and gave them enough of problems when they discovered in their cd cases music that came from illegal sharing,copying or downloading.I can recall a case in Italy where a dj got caught in Rome for owning illegal files in his case and got a very big fine and also another case in UK which you can read in this BBC News link where two people got a big fine two for making files available on the net. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4653662.stm

So like you see CINOS things are not as you think they are ;)

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Yeah, DJ's.

 

BTW. If you download this written material (posts) to your computer, you can consider yourself sued - because you have to pay to read it. Note that the internet cache counts.

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so how many beers have you actually bought to an artist? what's the count so far?

 

that was my point...

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There's a Swedish proverb that says "It's better to have one bird in the hand than 10 in the forest" and there's probably an English equivalent. What it means is that you should be happy with what you have. And for me it's something like "It's better to have 10 beers in your hand than 1 in the artist". It doesn't make much sense, so I don't know why I said it...

 

What I'm trying to say is that if I buy an album it makes a bigger impact on my personal economy than it does to the artist, and if you look at the big (not the small ones, poor them) record companies that host hundreds of artists, you see who really are the thieves. As for the small record companies, I'm not sure how to act, so I don't do anything, because like I said, it's a bigger impact on my economy than theirs. I'll give it some thought though, and try to research more in detail how it works (not today, tomorrow or probably any time soon, but I'll definitely find out, then I'll definitely tell people about it.)

 

Am I a bad person? :( I don't think I am, but I have my priorities.

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CANGREJO the middle hands as you refer when speaking about labels are not here just to sell the music but also to do other things like promoting the music,making it available to more people,help the artists get gigs and improve their music and finance them,organise events and a lot more.Are you sure that labels should dissappear?

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Not entirely disappear, but some parts of labels could be removed. The "making it available to more people" is just a joke. Maybe before internet this was true, but with mp3s the artists who make really good music will have their music spread and the bad artists will disappear. "finance them" is also a joke, since the labels eat the artist's money. Sure the labels help in some ways, but in some other ways they're just not needed.

 

And last but not least CANGREJO you dont want to give your money to businessmen but i guess you own an internet connection and a pc,you own a car or a motorcycle,you have a microwave oven,you got some clothes from big brands and you got a soundsystem in your home.I guess you dont consider Intel,AMD,Asus,Volkswagon,Yamaha,Nike,Adidas,Miele and Sony as 'businessmen' thats why you pay for their products,the fact that you just cant download an Intel Processor or a Miele microwave oven is just a small detail i guess...

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I really don't get your point. You're saying that I can buy expensive things, and other things I can choose to get for free or pay for, and I choose to get it for free. Now isn't that the most obvious statement of the day? Side note is that I don't buy bid brand clothes, cars... I don't need them, so why should I?

 

What I meant by give money to businessmen was just that, give.

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Guest Le Lotus Bleu

As i already state, there's the alternative of buying one track (0.99€) or an album (9,9€) by dl it with ITunes or alike platform.

 

The question is: what are (or how many) the psytrance labels proposing their releases with this system? I think very few, i remember of C.O.R.N doing it with the second entheogenic's album.

 

Detox do you propose this alternative with your releases, if not why?

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Actually... I'm going to start downloading everything and then sending 5-10 euro to the artist via PayPal.

 

Imagine if everybody did that. The scene would flourish. You leeching labels don't get shit.

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Actually... I'm going to start downloading everything and then sending 5-10 euro to the artist via PayPal.

486563[/snapback]

Yes, I've also thought about that. Well too bad 99% av the artists doesn't have a site.
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Felt like I had to post here.

I've been downloading MP3s of this genre too, for a couple of years. I currently store around 400 Gigabytes of Psy/Goa (all original releases with m3u, nfo and sfv), out of which quite a lot was downloaded on a 0.5Mbit connection. Like many others, I discovered more and more of the genre by doing this. Thumbs up.

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Those who think they can milk the cow without feeding it, shouldn't be a farmer.

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That can be applied to the labels as well. I mean, we don't give money withoyt being fed good music. :P

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Guest djnemo

Yeah, and when we stop feeding the cow completely (which is gonna happen sooner or later anyways) there will be no more good music Then you all have to listen to MY shitty music, and NHJO :D

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GOAZZZZ my friends case is well over and the sentence is final and already paid and yes it was the first case convincted in Greece like you said.I dont know what else has happened since then though and never heard another case but afterall i am not very much into newspapers and law cases news to know whats going on ;)

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Can you please ask your friend the details of his case....? Why he couldn't ask for a second trial...? What he did was a minor "crime" according to the law (plimelima), so he could ask for a second trial (sto efeteio)..! Did he have a lawyer...? Who that lawyer was...? What were his lawyer's arguments at the court...! These are very interesting to know, (if you can get those info of course), cause i'm prety sure that this is a new law and there should be ways to manage to escape a conviction-with a good lawyer of course...!

 

Pls get those info if you can, since he's a friend of yours it shouldn't be a big problem and let us know...!

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Dear CANGREJO i dont know your financial situation but you also dont know any artists financial situation,you can guess for sure but you will never know.So you might think that buying an original album is a major blow for your economic plan but when many people think like you and they download instead of buying originals then this is a major blow too for the economic plan of both the labels and artists,labels because they loose sales and artists because they loose royalties and because since cds dont sell so much they also wont get too much money for their tracks.We all belong in the same food chain and our actions affect all of us.

 

Now concerning the labels first of all i got to ask you to not put on the same level psy trance labels that sell 1500-2000 copies in average and labels from the rock,pop,rap scene and even major dance labels like Global Underground or Black Hole.These big labels sell thousands and millions of records each year and 2000 copies which is the average psy trance sales for a good label is just their promo list for a single release.Psy trance is a small scene with few listeners and i can characterise it as an underground music.

 

Secondly saying that 'labels eat the artists money' is something to general to say.I personally dont owe money to any artists i have work with,on the other hand many of them owe me an invoice for the money they received.The same applies for every serious label around.Just because shit labels like Spliff Music or USTA rip off their young artists this doesnt mean that every label works like that,if you fuck your artists then you can never grow bigger in this scene or build a good reputation.Have you ever heard any bad words concerning artists money for respectable labels like Twisted Records,TIP World,Alchemy Records,Nano Records,Hommega Productions,Digital Structures or Iboga just to name a few?And its not just big and respectable labels that work like this also smaller and younger labels like mine (Exposure Productions) or Harmonia Records or Tribal Vision work very profesionally trying to evolve and keep their good reputation.So please dont generalise too much cause its not fair for all of us that try to work in good faith :)

 

Last but not least what i meant with the Sony,Intel and Nike example is that while you own one or more of their products in your house you said that you refuse to give money to businessmen (reffering to people owning and operating labels) like label owners are businessmen while the people who own Sony,Intel and Nike are not.Hope you understand my point which in fact is that you give your money to Sony businessmen because you cant download a new television set or new soundsystem but you refuse to give your money to psy trance labels businessmen not because they are businessmen BUT BECAUSE YOU JUST HAVE THE OPTION TO DOWNLOAD THEIR PRODUCT FOR FREE FROM THE NET.Hope i was clear :)

 

By the way dont drink so much and buy a beer for your favorite artist the next time you see him,he will be very happy by your action and will appreciate it a lot.

 

LE LOTUS BLEU i am at the moment considering a contract offer by the biggest digital distribution company around which ofcourse is a partner of iTunes.Probably in the next couple of months my releases will also be available through all major digital stores ;)

 

CINOS you still insist on ignoring the major role of labels in our small scene,well i cant help you with that,my points are clear concerning the labels in my previous posts which you obviously didnt read or just ignored.Labels are not here just to make money because simply there are not a lot of money to be made out of psy trance.Just like someone once said 'the fastest way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire and open a trance label' ;)

 

By the way Saikosounds offers you 4 minutes demos on every track of every new release so you can choose which labels you want to support because they offer you good music and which labels you want to ignore.

 

GOAZZZZ the original sentence for my friend was 12 months in jail and 1300 euros fine which in the second trial (efeteio) fall to 8 months in jail and 1300 euros fine.Ofcourse he had the option to pay for his whole sentence.I dont know who his lawyer was though thats easy for me to find out but i wouldnt like to share in public such private information for reasons you can easily understand.Some things i can tell you though is that my friend was 17 years old when he was convicted so he got a 'light punishment' because of his age and also something very interesting that you might want to know is the fact that when he tried to release a track in a greek company for a trance compilation the AEPI organisation send a paper to the label and the printing factory which stated that this person cant release any music in Greece because of his conviction for the possesion of the illegal mp3 files,interesting huh?

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Yeah, and when we stop feeding the cow completely (which is gonna happen sooner or later anyways) there will be no more good music  Then you all have to listen to MY shitty music, and NHJO :D

486879[/snapback]

no no no, cause one day i'll be filthy wealthy and then everybody will be happy around here. :D:wacko::D

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ok heres the way i do with mp3 downloading - i share only mp3s that i dont own, as soon as i get desired cd i remove it from share, unless its so rare that it cant even be found on p2p. i download everything im interested with and buy it as soon as i can. i dont buy overpriced [in terms of money] rarities, never will, that money is not going to artists anyway.

my aim is to buy every release that i desire [and that i can afford, and that would be no more than 20euros, maybe maximum 25 in some cases per record].

i know there are people who will not buy a cd even when they can afford it.

i know there are people like me who dont have enough money to spend on records to buy them all simultaneously, and im not talking here about new releases, im talking about oldschool releases. as for psytrance being released today - i see no problems why one couldnt buy it when he can afford it, i definitely will. but there are also people who cant buy even 1cd no matter how much do they want to because not in all countries people live in wellbeing [sp?] society.

but what i truly believe in - music should be higher quality, there should be demand for high quality music only. music should be available for everyone, so the solution could be flac downloads, the best way would be FREE music. then when there would be no crappy masses of copycats and overproduction in this scene people would learn to appreaciate music more, and i think that artists then could make a living even with free music, festivals-parties would be the way to get some financial appreciation from people who share the same perception of music with you.

edit : and yes, the idea with paypal is simple and imo a MUST!

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Guest Astro Cortex

no no no, cause one day i'll be filthy wealthy and then everybody will be happy around here. :D  :wacko::D

487109[/snapback]

I don't get it, sorry :unsure: . Please elaborate, I don't wanna miss that laugh ;) .

 

 

but what i truly believe in - music should be higher quality, there should be demand for high quality music only. music should be available for everyone, so the solution could be flac downloads, the best way would be FREE music. then when there would be no crappy masses of copycats and overproduction in this scene people would learn to appreaciate music more, and i think that artists then could make a living even with free music, festivals-parties would be the way to get some financial appreciation from people who share the same perception of music with you.

edit : and yes, the idea with paypal is simple and imo a MUST!

487133[/snapback]

How exactly do you think that should work?

 

That dwnload+PayPal thing is already offered by some artists, such as Vir Unis, James Johnson & Co (http://www.atmoworks.com). A nice idea, but by far no solution. You know, people will still share the MP3 files they bought, and so on....

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I don't get it, sorry :unsure: . Please elaborate, I don't wanna miss that laugh ;) .

How exactly do you think that should work?

 

That dwnload+PayPal thing is already offered by some artists, such as Vir Unis, James Johnson & Co (http://www.atmoworks.com). A nice idea, but by far no solution. You know, people will still share the MP3 files they bought, and so on....

487141[/snapback]

yes they will, but maybe you could re-read my post again and take it as a whole ;)

yes ppl will share anyway, but with free dloads and paypal artists/labels imo will loose less, in this case there could even be direct dload from artists web page with no labels involved, so the only thing that would be neccesary is mastering, isnt it? i mean - when artist gives his stuff away for free or "donations" then there are lesser people involved and with that costs go down IMO.

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Dear CANGREJO i dont know your financial situation but you also dont know any artists financial situation,you can guess for sure but you will never know.So you might think that buying an original album is a major blow for your economic plan but when many people think like you and they download instead of buying originals then this is a major blow too for the economic plan of both the labels and artists,labels because they loose sales and artists because they loose royalties and because since cds dont sell so much they also wont get too much money for their tracks.We all belong in the same food chain and our actions affect all of us.

 

Now concerning the labels first of all i got to ask you to not put on the same level psy trance labels that sell 1500-2000 copies in average and labels from the rock,pop,rap scene and even major dance labels like Global Underground or Black Hole.These big labels sell thousands and millions of records each year and 2000 copies which is the average psy trance sales for a good label is just their promo list for a single release.Psy trance is a small scene with few listeners and i can characterise it as an underground music.

 

Secondly saying that 'labels eat the artists money' is something to general to say.I personally dont owe money to any artists i have work with,on the other hand many of them owe me an invoice for the money they received.The same applies for every serious label around.Just because shit labels like Spliff Music or USTA rip off their young artists this doesnt mean that every label works like that,if you fuck your artists then you can never grow bigger in this scene or build a good reputation.Have you ever heard any bad words concerning artists money for respectable labels like Twisted Records,TIP World,Alchemy Records,Nano Records,Hommega Productions,Digital Structures or Iboga just to name a few?And its not just big and respectable labels that work like this also smaller and younger labels like mine (Exposure Productions) or Harmonia Records or Tribal Vision work very profesionally trying to evolve and keep their good reputation.So please dont generalise too much cause its not fair for all of us that try to work in good faith :)

 

Last but not least what i meant with the Sony,Intel and Nike example is that while you own one or more of their products in your house you said that you refuse to give money to businessmen (reffering to people owning and operating labels) like label owners are businessmen while the people who own Sony,Intel and Nike are not.Hope you understand my point which in fact is that you give your money to Sony businessmen because you cant download a new television set or new soundsystem but you refuse to give your money to psy trance labels businessmen not because they are businessmen BUT BECAUSE YOU JUST HAVE THE OPTION TO DOWNLOAD THEIR PRODUCT FOR FREE FROM THE NET.Hope i was clear :)

 

By the way dont drink so much and buy a beer for your favorite artist the next time you see him,he will be very happy by your action and will appreciate it a lot.

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I don't really want to give money to those other big companies either, but I have to if I want to live like I do. With mp3s I have a choice. (Pretty much what you said)

 

Nope, I haven't heard any bad words about those record labels, but I think the artists work alot harder than the people at the labels and make less money. It's like that in other genres anyway.

 

My financial situation is that I owe the government $5000 or so. I don't really have a problem with it, because they're letting me loan it for a couple years with a long payment plan, but now you know.

 

I think I'm gonna go with cinos' plan and send money directly to the artists, I mean, they're the ones doing all the work. Music is spread through tips on sites like psynews, on p2p network, and I download anything I can find that says psytrance, then I find out what artists I like and search for more. So they don't have to actively promote themselves through labels. I don't know about live acts though, but I don't go to many so I don't really want to get into it yet. Plus you pay for almost all parties anyway so I think it's all good.

 

Now the problem is that I am just saying this, I probably won't send money to artists. I'll keep it in mind though, because it's a good thing to do. If I see a paypal donation link maybe I'll click it. I'm a little more open to paying now anyway.

 

to Colin:

I eat bread, but I don't feed the wheat. I don't think cows should be milked. It's painful :( (This is a joke comment. Please don't get mad at me for it. Sure, the milk part isn't a joke, but that's a whole different story)

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