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How much should an artist make for one song?


Basilisk
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all the hippies who think society is so bad etc and dont want to work i suggest you move somewhere that doesnt have the system, like some third world country instead of eat the bread of those who work

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I think it's sad that people just agree with how society is built up. It's not right, people are starving because we focus on the wrong things.

 

"eat the bread of those who work"

You know who's eating your bread? The people with million dollar cars? ;) Tax payer's money surely end up in the right pockets... :D

 

Anyway, the third world countries are getting better. At least they're making progress, just look at China, which is a country in between. They're getting to be more and more of a "normal" country. I hope the same thing will happen in all the really poor countries. It will probably take lots of time, but you can always hope. :)

 

Anyway, I'm tired of this discussion, and I bet you are too :)

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No.  You're wrong (and I don't normally make categorical statements like that).

 

All you can say is "... and it usually turns out to be something I don't like".

 

PS.  Some of the opinions you have put forth in your posts have made me quite pissed off.  I haven't got the time to reply properly right now because I've got to pack and leave for a gig very soon.  I might just leave you to fester in your own 'idealism' (I bet you don't pay for all the music you download, either, am I right?)... being creative might not be a 'job' for most people who try and express themselves with music, but making stuff that's worth listening to takes TIME - far more time in some cases than most of you imagine.  I worked it out on Isra once, and for what we (and most people) get paid for a track (if we get paid at all), the equivalent hourly rate works out at literally a few cents an hour.  "What about gigs?" I hear you cry... sure, they can sometimes pay ok but for 95% of people who make trance getting a decent gig AND getting paid for it is nigh-on impossible as promoter's artist budgets are normally gobbled up by the fees demanded by headliners.

 

I'm fed up to the back teeth of being skint; of not knowing whether I'll be able to keep my car on the road; of surviving on ramen noodles for the last week of every month.  But I tell you now, if money was the motivation I could be earning £50k as a computer programmer right now... but if I did that I'd be too tired in my time off to make music.  People like you make me sick; you don't have any appreciation of how much artists give of ourselves, just to give you a 10MB download.

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I see now, you're working doing something you love and you're getting paid for it. You know some people have to work for 12 hours a day just to get food on the table.

 

"What about gigs?" I hear you cry...

I never even mentioned gigs, but since you brought it up... You make money plus get the appreciation from your fans. If you really think the gigs are such a pain maybe you should consider another line of work.

 

I might just leave you to fester in your own 'idealism' (I bet you don't pay for all the music you download, either, am I right?)... being creative might not be a 'job' for most people who try and express themselves with music, but making stuff that's worth listening to takes TIME - far more time in some cases than most of you imagine.

I stand by my words that music is meant for listening and expressing feelings and I really don't think you should get paid for it. So to answer your question - No, I don't pay for music.

 

I study full time (20 hours scheduled time and at least 10 (30 recommended) hours more at home or with friends) and I still have time to produce some music, play computer games, watch tv. Sure I don't produce at your level, but that doesn't matter. I really don't think that you spend 40 hours per week producing music/doing gigs. And if you don't do that, you could probably work part time as a programmer and earn those extra bucks you need so you don't have to eat noodles for a week. Even if you're spending 40 hours per week, you really love making music, don't you? Then I don't see the problem, 40 hours of "work" and then 20 hours of making music on your free time. That makes 60 hours per week of working with music. Or you could take those extra 20 hours and get a part time job.

 

Edit: I'm sorry for some of the magic, I know you don't wanna work 60 hours per week, but I'm exaggerating a little to make a point.

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Cangrejo - Do you include all artists (eg. painters, sculptors) in your list of creative people who shouldn't be paid for what they do, or do you reserve your scorn just for musicians?

 

Your arguments are totally specious, but just to show willing I'll deal with some of your points.

 

I really don't think that you spend 40 hours per week producing music/doing gigs.

You're quite right. I don't spend 40 hours a week doing music.

 

Just for the record, I've worked it out and Andrew and I spent 36 hours in the studio this weekend alone, from Saturday to Monday. We also played an hour's live set on Friday night (with added didgeridoo :lol: ) and I DJd for an hour too; it was 2 1/2 hours drive there and back for me. It was a benefit party so we didn't get paid a fee, just expenses. I also worked in the studio with another project during the evenings for 3 days last week, for an average of 7 hours a night.

 

I make that 51 hours spent writing or performing this week; 56 if you count driving to and from the gig. So no, I don't spend "40 hours per week" at it.

 

I also teach music tech for 11 hours every week, for which I have to drive maybe 8 hours in total - this is my 'day job' and pays my rent and utility bills, but not a hell of a lot else - my basic pay (not including travel expenses) is just over £500 a month, and six grand a year is NOTHING in the UK. I stay in this job because it gives me the time I need to do my own thing, and to take the pressure off the music to earn me my entire living. Not having to write means that when I do, I can express something other than "please buy my track because I'm hungry".

 

Anyway, I guess you could say this week I spent 62 hours working with music in one way or another, and if you add in the necessary travel time that takes it up to 75.

 

Kind of blows your 'exaggeration' out of the water, doesn't it.

 

The fact is, mate, I effectively live below the poverty line here in the UK because I choose to spend my time making music and performing, rather than doing a regular 9-to-5 and earning enough money to have a comfortable life, and going to the pub (I don't drink) and having a girlfriend :(:unsure: and all that shit you normal people do. I know for damn sure I'm not the only one. The scene is built on people donating their time and energy to giving people like you a good night out. All we ask is that if you enjoy the music or the parties or the festivals we make for you, you complete the transaction and show your appreciation by donating something in return that will help us get by and make more. May I suggest that this donation takes the form of a small sum of money? It's much more a flexible gift than, say, a loaf of bread or some roofing tiles.

 

I'm tired of this. You either get it or you don't, and I guess you don't. I really hope that if you're ever lucky enough to get a full-time job you enjoy so much that you voluntarily work hours of overtime, your boss withholds your salary because you're having too much fun.

 

Adios, cabron.

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Nicely put, Colin.

 

And may I reiterate an important point, because it has been lost in the depths of this thread, that without art our lives would be endlessly dull and sterile.

 

Everything would be empty. Barren. Lifeless.

 

We NEED artists.

 

What we DON'T need are a bunch of mush-brained paper-pushers who have no talent but are working their silly fucking job because it was created by some other talentless shit in a long line of talentless shits who, because they lack any real depth, feel that money is more important than soul.

 

And let me just state that in our Western culture it seems the things we actually need the most, like artists and teachers and social workers, are payed the shittiest, whereas some high-powered, corrupted, corporate robot schmuck is raking in all the dough because he has a larger virtual penis.

 

Our so-called "civilization" is totally backwards, worse than the stone age, and it clearly rubs off on the vast majority of soul-less neanderthal dipshits who don't, can't or won't know any better.

 

Rage over.

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well cangajero .. i recommend north korea to you, here you can see pictures, no art, no fashion, only 'necessary' things are done ;) .. im not saying this is perfect society but if you want to do something about it then do, not working doesnt help, and by eating other peoples bread i mean people who are sick etc and really cant work

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cangrejo, you're so naive.

 

you're so happy that you have a baby on the way .. imagine how happy you would be if you were an artist and people would not pay anything for your music... and you could not afford to be a dad. that would cut down on your happiness for sure.

 

it's the same with artists. they love making art, and they wish they didn't have to go get a second job to get by. they want the time to create music.

just imagine that your baby is to you what art is to artists. it's like wanting a baby but affording just half a baby. it's like having a baby but not being able to spend time with him/her, because you have to work too much cause you need the money to survive.

 

in the end, let me make it simple:

- music has the purpose of satisfying a person's needs. this makes music have some properties and a value, which makes it a product, a competitive product. thus there is a market for music. logically, everything on the market has a price. whoever wants to satisfy some personal needs through music, should get on the market, search, and trade value (money) for value (music).

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What Colin said is so right, I know lots of artists that put SO much efford in their music, and I think they should get paid correctly

 

only thing is... What is affordable in this scene? I'm afraid not so much unfortunately, and that is the problem, low cd sales = low income for artists and labels so a non floroushing cd market... This is a negative spiral... But still I am happy that there are so many artists putting so much efford in their music! And instead of having so much criticism we should be happy they are doing this for us! :)

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...without art our lives would be endlessly dull and sterile.

 

Everything would be empty. Barren. Lifeless.

 

We NEED artists.

 

What we DON'T need are a bunch of mush-brained paper-pushers who have no talent but are working their silly fucking job because it was created by some other talentless shit in a long line of talentless shits who, because they lack any real depth, feel that money is more important than soul.

 

And let me just state that in our Western culture it seems the things we actually need the most, like artists and teachers and social workers, are payed the shittiest, whereas some high-powered, corrupted, corporate robot schmuck is raking in all the dough because he has a larger virtual penis.

 

Our so-called "civilization" is totally backwards, worse than the stone age, and it clearly rubs off on the vast majority of soul-less neanderthal dipshits who don't, can't or won't know any better.

 

Rage over.

451675[/snapback]

What he said, but in an English accent.

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well cangajero .. i recommend north korea to you, here you can see pictures, no art, no fashion, only 'necessary' things are done  ;) .. im not saying this is perfect society but if you want to do something about it then do, not working doesnt help, and by eating other peoples bread i mean people who are sick etc and really cant work

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You should see their big events... Check the propaganda films on the official website Democratic People's Republic of Korea

 

Anyway, this country is messed up beyong recognition.

 

Anyway, I guess you could say this week I spent 62 hours working with music in one way or another, and if you add in the necessary travel time that takes it up to 75.

Alright, I stand corrected.

 

cangrejo, you're so naive.

I believe that there is a better form of society and you say things implying "that's not possible, I can only see what's in front of my eyes". Who's naive?

 

And let me just state that in our Western culture it seems the things we actually need the most, like artists and teachers and social workers, are payed the shittiest, whereas some high-powered, corrupted, corporate robot schmuck is raking in all the dough because he has a larger virtual penis.

My thoughts exactly. Why don't you just "listen" to what I have to say? It'll be much easier that way.

 

To make it clear, all of my posts in the topic are just ideas, I'm not saying that it's possible to change it all over night, but surely you all agree that a society where you don't have to work as hard just to live would be better than the society we live in today?

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QUOTE:

And let me just state that in our Western culture it seems the things we actually need the most, like artists and teachers and social workers, are payed the shittiest, whereas some high-powered, corrupted, corporate robot schmuck is raking in all the dough because he has a larger virtual penis.

ENDQUOTE (my emphasis)

 

My thoughts exactly. Why don't you just "listen" to what I have to say? It'll be much easier that way.

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Eh?? :blink: Isn't this the same Cangrejo that said:

 

Music is made for listening, it's a pleasure to do music, not a line of work. Fuck off anyone who says that it should be worth more than $0.

Sorry, but:

 

Twat.

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Ummm, I will put it through half joking, but it wouldn't be bad if it was for real :

 

CLASSIC : 1000 $

 

CULT : 800 $

 

ONE DAY WONDER : 500 $

 

UNKNOWN TALENTED ARTIST : 300 $

 

FULL ON : 100 $

 

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

It would be great if trance scene was functioning like this...:D

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Eh??  :blink: Isn't this the same Cangrejo that said:

Sorry, but:

 

Twat.

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It's not about money sir. I'm saying that artists shouldn't have to work (making music on a "schedule") for money, because that leads to stress, and stress leads to mediocre results. I'm saying that everyone, not just artists should have to work way less than 8 hours per day to support themselves, and then they can do anything they want, eg. make music.

 

And yes, it's the same cangrejo. And it does make sense, if you think about it for a while.

 

Edit: Why do you think most (not all) CDs have like one or two good tracks and the rest are just standard music that anyone can do?

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It's not about money sir. I'm saying that artists shouldn't have to work (making music on a "schedule") for money, because that leads to stress, and stress leads to mediocre results.

485309[/snapback]

Music ... should [not] be worth more than $0.

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Edit: Why do you think most (not all) CDs have like one or two good tracks and the rest are just standard music that anyone can do?

485309[/snapback]

Because music is subjective - you might think that only one or two good tracks are on there, but another might think the entire work is great.

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Because music is subjective - you might think that only one or two good tracks are on there, but another might think the entire work is great.

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eh, not always.. there's often only a couple of good tracks, the rest are crap. objectively, crap. ;)

 

to remedy the situation, the artists should be paid MORE, not less, so that they have time to work on all of the tracks an equal amount of time, not just one or two. :)

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Some quotes

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Look, what I'm trying to say is that music isn't necessary for mankind's survival. If everyone did their share of what's really necessary we would have more than enough time to make music without having to worry about finishing the tracks as soon as possible.
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Look, what I'm trying to say is that music isn't necessary for mankind's survival. If everyone did their share of what's really necessary we would have more than enough time to make music without having to worry about finishing the tracks as soon as possible.

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music is pretty necessary for my survival, don't know about you. maybe you should go without listening to any music for a year or two, see how you feel..

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music is pretty necessary for my survival, don't know about you. maybe you should go without listening to any music for a year or two, see how you feel..

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You can probably stop listening to music and fill the void with other things. Music however is, as far as I know, harmless, so it's a good habit.

 

Anyway, by necessary I mean things that are necessary for the body to function, and don't worry, there'd be plenty of time, like I've stated countless number of times before, to make/listen to music.

 

God, I'm starting to sound like a politician. :(

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Anyway, by necessary I mean things that are necessary for the body to function,

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..man does not live by bread alone..

 

;)

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..man does not live by bread alone..

 

;)

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I know, but it doesn't matter, because that's the whole point. We would have alot more free time to do what's really living life, after we've taken care of our bodies' needs. ie. food.
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