Void Mantra
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Posts posted by Void Mantra
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8 hours ago, psychedelic chipmunk said:
The movie is biased, it presents exactly the same message as the movie Earthlings. Everybody in their right state of mind realises such treatment of animals will yield VERY poor product - be it meat or dairy products or eggs or what have you. Therefore, it is not a sensible course of action (therefore anyone interested in lasting business won't do something like this). I won't even get into the lack of proper research presentation in either movie. Let's overcome the cognitive dissonance and recognise propaganda for what it is, ok? Great.
I wasn't able to find any relevant work on the claims of either Dietetic institution and I don't mean a pop-science article, rather I mean the reports of the specialists that carried out this research. My guess is that the people behind the research are more interested in finding alternative sufficient food sources and their work is being ripped out of context. It is customary to state in the abstract of a report the purpose of research at hand. Pop science articles are known to use legitimate works and results falsely to promote whatever propaganda seems profitable at the time.
On skimming the BDA's article it is mentioned that the BDA provides excellent nutritional advice by dietitians based on (you're gonna love this part) evidence.
Well, that's reassuring, but where do I find the research of these scientists?
I should not even waste more time on reading articles without actual references
Cognitive dissonance check!
https://www.eatrightpro.org/-/media/eatrightpro-files/practice/position-and-practice-papers/position-papers/vegetarian-diet.pdf?la=en&hash=13D2FB5B600CF0778F6FE12B50ED9CE2645CAEF9
The peer-reviewed paper in question with 100+ references. Have fun.
You're in denial. Wake up. -
To those rare few meat eaters still willing to take responsibily for their actions, or lack thereof; this one is for you:
My respect to all meat eaters out there who watch the whole thing.-
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Extreme metal doesn't get better than this.
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On 10/5/2018 at 4:43 AM, psychedelic chipmunk said:
Can't imagine my diet without a hint of meat or fish.
The various documentaries (of cows or pigs or whatever) that show you which atrocities are committed by so and so are a red herring (as an argument). Appeals are made to the viewer's emotions. Furthermore, extreme examples aren't convincing, either. I'm now supposed to believe that's how all the slaughterhouses in the world work, is that it?
One must be aware of potential contamination issues, though. At least in the developed countries, we have dedicated institutes for that.
Long story short, eat your steak, your body needs it.
Wrong.
"Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses." - Harvard Medical School" [...] appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases." - The American Dietetic Association
" [...] a well-planned vegan diet can support healthy living in people of all ages” - British Dietetic Association
Please educate yourself.
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16 minutes ago, recursion loop said:
So it's not like "if you want to be as good and moral as me just stop buying meat and milk, it's that easy". It's not that easy.
Convenience is indeed a fine moral justification for the mistreatement and slaughter of sentient beings.
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7 minutes ago, Shineingrid said:
How I feel everyday
The image is actually telling. Indeed, when I think of the horror show that is the factory farming, my spontaneous reaction is akin to the man on the left. Sadly, the average person reacts like the lady on the right. Granted, totally unacceptable behavior on my end.
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@recursion loop
"Vegetarians displayed elevated prevalence rates for depressive disorders, anxiety disorders and somatoform disorders ... the adoption of the vegetarian diet tends to follow the onset of mental disorders."
Cum hoc ergo propter hoc, look it up. The study precicely stipulates that "Importantly, we found no evidence for a causal role of vegetarian diet in the etiology of mental disorders.".
It can also be said of psychopath (APD) that they blatantly disregards safety of self and others, show a pattern of irresponsibility and lack of remorse for actions. You see, I could easily play that game in regard to psychopathy and meat eaters; believe me, you don't want to go there.Let's continue, the study also suggest that these disorders could be linked to a b12 and long-chain n-3 fatty acids (ALA) deficiency, both of which widely available in plants (soy and linseed oil, among others). Some people prefer animal slaughter over couple of b12 tablets a day; not me. It's also strange that this "survey" didn't make sure their vegetarian group (or all their participants really) had an adequate, balanced diet to begin with. I can eat potato chips all day long and be vegetarian. Not that I care much but here's a counter study: https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/1475-2891-9-26.
Look, I'm not a nutrionist and debating its specifics bores me to no end. Having the largest nutritionist organization in the world (among others) stating that an [appropriately planned vegan diet is healthful, nutritionally adequate and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases] is strong enough evidence for me.
Anyway man, that's it for me. I'm done here. -
4 hours ago, recursion loop said:
Not to mention that you look obviovulsy biased so I guess that among all scientific evidences you are choosing only those which support your decision.
And yes, I do like meat
I cited the world's largest organization on food and nutrition, which represents over 100,000 credentialed practitioners. When you claim that I simply cherry pick studies to support my bias, you are being intellectually dishonest. Pretigious, well renowned organization's final word doesn't equal those of Joe the butcher's. Expertise matter and not all studies are on the same spectrum in that regard.
For many, taste pleasure can justify just about anything and frankly it's disgusting. In that sense yes, I am biased. I am biased toward the well-being of our fellow animals who endure an infinite cycle of hell. I am biased toward love and care instead of enslavement and profit. I am biased against seing animals as product and property. However, I won't deny hard evidence.
I'm out. Take care people and please have a thought for the animals. That's all I'm asking.-
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7 hours ago, recursion loop said:
The problem with these studies is that they can prove basically everything the authors want to prove. You can manipulate things on different levels, the inclusion criteria, the statistical data, the interpretation of the results, whatever. By manipulation, I don't actually mean intentional distrotion of the study design and results, but rather subconscious bias of the investigators in favour of their ideas.
I can readily believe that an avreage vegan may have equally good or better health than an average meat eater. As far vegainsm is usually associated with healthy lifestyle in general, a vegan is expected to do more excercises, drink less alcohol, if any, eat less sugar if any etc. What exactly provides the health benefits they are talking about, and how do we determine the effect of veganism alone? Aslo I think it is generally applciable to the 1st world countires mostly, where most people can buy high quality food of any kind.
But the bottomline is: why would anyone care what other people are eating?
So you're basically a science denier since the same statement can be said of virtually every scientic papers. I guess you should visit the academy of nutrition and dietetics, which represents over 100,000 credentialed practitioners, and tell them they don't know how to conduct a valid scientific study.
But the bottomline is: why would anyone care what other people are eating?
Because the unnecessary suffering and killing of sentient beings is involved. Just so you know, pigs are as intelligent, emotional and cognitively complex as a 3-year-old child. On every front (ethics, environment, nutrition), I really don't know how a sane, humane and well-informed person can be in support of the meat industry.I think I made my point. That's it for me guys.
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40 minutes ago, reger said:
Well, well, well, what do we have here - double morals or bigotry :D?
Assumption, my friend, is mother of f-ups ;)! Dont assume and dont judge and then make false claims or empty assumptions, thats one big problem with all the white knights advocating pro-vegan lifestyles.Assumption based on evidence. Plants have no limbic or central nervous system that I'm aware of.
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45 minutes ago, reger said:
Void Mantra, you wont convince anyone here about how much better vegan diet is when compared to meat eating diet.
Extremes never worked well and if you have to stuff yourself full of supplements or order produce to be shipped from far-far away lands, then such diet is not sustainable for a human being to thrive on, end of story.
Since you like to advocate for scientific research, do your own google-fu and find data that speaks in favour of meat eating diet as well, dont pretend that the data isnt there. Some thrive on vegan, some on vegetarian, others on balanced meat eating diet, I know it hurts, but thats hard facts.
My own experience might be anecdotal to you, but it what counts for me, not some new age wishful thinking about what works for me or should work for me, here, in this part of the world. As I said, been there, done that, was meat free for 8 years, naturally returned to eating meat one day and thats what MOST of vegans/vegetarians return to, go check facts, scientific data, statistics.
We are not there yet to be able to turn 100% vegan/vegetarian, just because you think we should and some snake oil sellers tell you that we could, doesnt mean we can, there are other, much more serious things to be solved before we even can touch the sacred cow of vegans point of view considering meat eating.
"Void Mantra, you wont convince anyone here about how much better vegan diet is when compared to meat eating diet."
I presented conclusive evidence. Feel free to disregard facts all you want, I'm not your mom."Extremes never worked well and if you have to stuff yourself full of supplements or order produce to be shipped from far-far away lands, then such diet is not sustainable for a human being to thrive on, end of story."
Strange world when the ones who call for compassion and responsibily toward animals are called the "extremes" while the ones supporting the unnecessary slaughter of 60 billion animals are seen as balanced and normal."Since you like to advocate for scientific research, do your own google-fu and find data that speaks in favour of meat eating diet as well, dont pretend that the data isnt there. Some thrive on vegan, some on vegetarian, others on balanced meat eating diet, I know it hurts, but thats hard facts."
I can find just about anything on the internet; flat-earthers, pro-smoking institutes, you name it. Again, if the American Dietetic Association, the world's largest organization of food and nutrition, is no more credible to you than some random hack spewing non-sense on youtube, you are indeed living in crazytown."My own experience might be anecdotal to you, but it what counts for me, not some new age wishful thinking about what works for me or should work for me, here, in this part of the world. As I said, been there, done that, was meat free for 8 years, naturally returned to eating meat one day and thats what MOST of vegans/vegetarians return to, go check facts, scientific data, statistics."
Have fun with this idea.
"We are not there yet to be able to turn 100% vegan/vegetarian, just because you think we should and some snake oil sellers tell you that we could, doesnt mean we can, there are other, much more serious things to be solved before we even can touch the sacred cow of vegans point of view considering meat eating."
Again, more nonsense. I understand that 60 billion animal deaths per year is nothing too serious to you but it is to me; let's leave it at that. -
2 hours ago, thanosp81 said:
We, as a species, whether you like it or not, are omnivores. So a balanced diet is better that any other type. Or are you under the illusion that the vegetables you eat are not part of the over consumption problem? Do you think that the vegetables are grown under natural conditions? That they are free of "nasty" things? Do you, we, have any idea the damage we cause to the soil to grow all the vegetables we need?
We have to stop over consuming. We need to find a way to coexist, or at least to be able to return back to earth "more" that what we use. That is our next evolution step.
The "natural" way to go is to have a balanced diet, that includes everything we need to eat and no supplements. Being a vegan and having to take supplements? Doesn't sound right to me.
BTW, why do I personally have to kill the animals I eat? Do all vegetarians grow their own vegetables?
I have more but I forgot
Maybe later
Many things here;
"We, as a species, whether you like it or not, are omnivores."
And? Saying that we can do something doesn't mean we have to. We can eat meat but we don't have to. We can smack our child but we don't have to."So a balanced diet is better that any other type."
A vegan who eats chips all day long probably won't do well for sure. The thing is, you seem to imply the we need meat to thrive. What empirical evidence do you have to back this up? As a counter argument, I gave two sources: one from the Harvard Medical School, the other from the American Dietetic Association (see above)."That they are free of "nasty" things? Do you, we, have any idea the damage we cause to the soil to grow all the vegetables we need?"
I do. One more reason to go vegan. 70% of US grain goes to livestock. Do I live in this magic bubble where I think there's no collateral damage done whatsoever? Of course not. It's all about minimizing the amount of suffering of sentient beings. Also, the intention must be taken into account when it comes to ethics, in this case the intention of killing."We have to stop over consuming. We need to find a way to coexist, or at least to be able to return back to earth "more" that what we use. That is our next evolution step."
Yes. Not gonna happen if we keep treating animals as property and products."The "natural" way to go is to have a balanced diet, that includes everything we need to eat and no supplements. Being a vegan and having to take supplements? Doesn't sound right to me."
Again, it has already been established that you don't need meat to be healthy. Quite the opposite, a balanced plant-based diet even helps reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease, diabetes and some cancers. When it comes to supplements, vegans are indeed at risk of having a vitamin b12 deficiency. This can easily be addressed by eating soymilk, tofu, various nuts etc. Also, 90% of the B12 supplements we produce are fed to livestock. If you're truly anti-supplement, you should be vegan.BTW, why do I personally have to kill the animals I eat? Do all vegetarians grow their own vegetables?
Did I say that? Keep in mind, there's no evidence that plants are sentient, let alone capable to feeling pain and well-being. If they do, it is safe to assume that it's on a much lesser degree than animals. The argument that killing plants is the moral equivalent of killing animals is just silly.
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2 hours ago, reger said:
its not for humans as such and at the moment there is no way around balanced diet and balanced contains animal or fish meat.
Ridiculous statement. Studies have demonstrated time and time again that a well-balanced plant-based diet is appropriate at all stages of human developpement:
"Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses." - Harvard Medical School
" [...] appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases." - The American Dietetic AssociationWhen it comes to facts, I'll favour serious scientific meta analysis over some anecdotal claims, thank you very much.
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1 hour ago, reger said:
Smart farming is sustainable, including meat eating, the question is - who will be the pioneer in such farming, where everyone wins?
Everyone except the animals, of course:
Couldn't watch the whole thing.
If one truly believe that the so called "smart" farming can alleviate animal suffering in this money-driven society, he's living on Disney planet. How far can we go for taste pleasure? How numb and cruel have we become for a bacon sandwich? There is no doubt to me that this "smart" agriculture is humanity at its lowest.-
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1 hour ago, reger said:
How far does your food has to travel to your local store?
If its sustainable, I dont care whether one is vegan, vegetarian or meat eater.
Unfortunately, killing your own meat/fish is impossible for the most of society, both because we have been raised without hunting as well as there isnt enough of wild fish and animals for all to hunt, so for survival of humanity, farming is still the way to go, big or small depends on sustainability, unless we go for every house hold having their own garden and animals for meat and dairy.
One problem with the meat industry is that the majority of its agriculture goes to livestock. As of today, 50% of the US land is used for agriculture. Moving to an entirely grass-fed industry is not possible, due to land menagement. This lack of space is the reason why the amazonian rainforest was chopped by 20% (and growing); NOT good for our gobal carbon footprint. Don't even get me started on methane, which is 10 times more potent than carbon.
Bottom line is, no matter how you spin it, eating meat is no longer sustainable.
Fun fact: All the grain which is used in the US for livestock animals could feed 800 000 000 people, which is 2x its entire population.-
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On 8/30/2018 at 4:26 AM, thanosp81 said:
I can understand someone being a vegetarian (not vegan). But why stop drinking milk???
1) A cow is continually fisted/inseminated against her will. (In human term, we call that "rape").
2) Her baby cows are quickly and repeadetly taken away from her (usually 36 hours after birth, so the milk goes to the humans, not the calves). Thereafter, the mother cow calls for her babies for days.
3) A good portion of the male calves go the slaughterhouses.
4) When the mother cow is about 5 years old and no longer productive (mostly due to stress, exhaustion and diseases), she's slaughtered for meat. Keep in mind that the cow's natural lifespan is 20 years on average.
5) In the slaughterhouse, she's usually shocked with a bolt gun, hanged by the legs to finally have her throat cut open.That's the true face of the dairy industry my friend. When you buy milk/dairy at the supermarket, you support all of the above.
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Should I report the psynews cannibals to interpol?? Tempting...
In case of Proxeeus that's a no...still want him to produce badass Goa trance.
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Conducting a little survey. Your vote would be greatly appreciated. Feel free to elaborate further below...
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On 6/29/2018 at 5:11 PM, Penzoline said:
Samples were disappointing, I was expecting blasting goatrance with great ambiance like from the various comps and they showed so much restraint. There was a reason though. Instead it seems to be a full-fledged story album. These tracks take their sweet time building themselves and just keep drifting onwards. That is not to say it isn't exciting, but holy hell when was the last time a full goatrance album managed to be this laidback and composed? There are no explosive climaxes, what you get from the beginning is what you get till the end. This album is definitely something else and I'm quite curious what everyone thinks.
Edit: On second thought it's more mid-tempo than uptempo. There were signs of this style on the Goa Meditation compilations. Definitely caught me off-guard because the other comps have really uptempo tracks from him.
My thoughts exactly...
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3 hours ago, tsotsi said:
Buy buy buy people! Tsotsi needs a little digi download
All you people need the cd version immediately. You're clicking that paypal button right now. /jeditrick
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Previous v/a was a BEAST!! Cannot wait for that one. Also, THAT lineup
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So no date for digital release?
Meat eater/Vegetarian/Vegan. What are you?
in Off Topic
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Chimp, calling the position of Harvard Medical School and ADA on dietetics as "pop science" is not only laughable but completely delusional, you know that right? Quite frankly you give climate change deniers and flat earthers a run for their money. What are you credentials on nutrition again? Probably nothing too spectacular judging from your rebuttals.
You first made a bold statement that the body needs meat thrive; which is factually, empirically not true. That's when I came in and what I argued against. Some people has been vegetarians for some 50+ years and still kicking. Then, in the face of evidence, your position change to "if your diet works for you, then all is well." At this point, you're obviously just being intellectually dishonest and simply try to win the argument for the sake of it.
Also, "We should distinguish between veganism and veganism*. The latter is a political crusade, while the former is merely another way of life." LMAO. That's a real beauty right there.