dmtree
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Posts posted by dmtree
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Nitro and Painkiller are well-known acts/DJs that have been around for years in that parallel [non-psy] universe.
but Ace Ventura is indeed one of the most uninspired names i've heard lately.. up there with Psynina.
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god bless IDM, the ever-unmixable, un-countable, un-categorizable, un-danceable music.
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Higha guys,
I've been trying to figure out what's a decent and reliable ways to count BPMs. I've got traktor but it's not really reliable, if ya ask me... Well, I should note I want to know the bpm's of my chill-cd's. Cause usually they're harder to mix cause the speed of the beats varies a lot more than when you play one certain kind of electronic music (fullon, prog, house, electro, whaddeva)
I'm trying Traktor and am being very much not happy with it. I've tried Mixmeister BPM Analyzer as well, but that one only works for mp3s. Thoughts anyone?
eh.. you could count them manually. with a stop-watch.
the latest pioneer CDJs and mixers have half-decent built-in counters, though not sure how they'd work on something not 4/4.
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I agree, some tracks might be a bit tricky, but still ... Both Zik and Polyphonia make rather non-melodic psytrance around 150 bpm, so it's not really a problem beatmatching it. But Polyphonia seems to like snare-kick-snare-kick, instead of the usual kick-snare-kick-snare routine. That's kinda confusing at times.
My point wasn't that these artists are impossible to mix, but that it's not condusive to the flow. Some of these newer futuristic psy artists like Polyphonia and (especially) Zik, as well as some others (Fractal Cowboys, Dejan, OSOM etc), create very much 'complete' journey tracks with elaborate intros and outros, tracks that weren't really created with the DJ in mind. These tracks often go up and down in BPMs and have varied phrasing to go with a million sounds flying in and out at any given moment. Think Hallucinogen's Lone Deranger or Gamma Goblins - mixing in other tracks on top of these is counter-productive to the main task, which is to maintain a proper flow of the music. So with this kind of music I much prefer intelligent fade mixes.
for a bit more minimal 'dancefloor-oriented' tracks which is most of full-on and dark psy, and of course, progressive, fade-mixing is not enough, the momentum is simply lost if the track is allowed to wind down in the last 1-2 minutes without another track picking it up. Even Derango is mixable, in my opinion. But, say Vicious Spiral tracks should be played in their entirety, imo.
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CreamCrop would be nice to see again...
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i agree, i always beatmatch myself - just saying that mixing at length isn't quite as important for psytrance as it is for techno. also there are quite a few unmixable tracks, especially in the more twisted styles of psy.. go try to mix Zik with Polyphonia for 2 minutes, tell me if it works out.
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Plenty of techno DJs also just beat match their tracks, but just play 2-3 minuttes of each track. The music is so monotomous (if its minimal techno) that the only way to get the music to be interesting is by interesting mixing techniques (thats how I see it anyways).
actually, that's not true - techno tracks are minimal on purpose- they are DJ tools, not meant to be played, but played with. if you ever watch a real Techno dj, there's never a track playing by itself - always something is being mixed in on the 2nd or 3d deck.
I am fully aware of what you're saying, I used to prep sets in their entirety myself until I changed my mind about what DJing was about. but as far as I am concerned, DJing isn't a battlefield, it's not about dictating the flow, just as magic isn't about forcing your own will on the environment. To me it's about give and take, taking in the energy and responding to it, not forcing your music on people. In the past, I've come in to a party (in a different state, different part of North America altogether where people are used to different styles of psy) and had to completely switch my set from dark banging psy I was going to play to tweaky morning full-on and progressive.. and vice versa.
anyway, we obviously aren't getting any further with this, so might as well just leave it be..
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still, the DJ has to react to stimuli.. that's the art and the magic of it. that's why it's a DJ and not a jukebox. psytrance isn't really techno where it's all about mixing (done very much live, afaik), here most people won't notice if you fade every track, it's the music that counts, the energy and direction of the tracks. and IMHO, 'live' DJing has a much higher vibrational potential than anything prepped.
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Blue Room circa 1996-99.
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My own approach is a different one, using huge track databases, rated tracks and spending not days but weeks to select tracks for a particular set (just listening through tracks which have been previously selected). Getting to know the mood of the tracks, trying out ideas etc.
You didn't really understand what I said - I prepare ALL THE TIME, listening to tracks and picking out ones that I like, remember what it sounds like and what kind of situation would call for it. I like to know the first 2-3 tracks I am playing to set the mood, but I don't "prep" sets, giving myself enough freedom to pick and play whatever I want, thus experiencing the moment.
However, if I was to play ALL THE TIME, like you do - I would not be as prepared as I am now, I would probably only be playing on the fly sets just like you since preparing everything would simply become too much work and DJing would no longer be fun.
On the contrary, that's the most fun in DJing for me - the challenge of coming up with the perfect set for the moment. Believe me, going from playing dark-ass neuro-psy at a 20-person Hallloween party to opening for Yahel at the local mega-club the very next day isn't easy.. but a lot of fun.
I didn't mean to call you a n00b, I know you aren't. But if you actually do start playing all the time, you'll probably get the knack for coming up with perfect mixes on the fly, I bet you probably have it in your head already.
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yeah, the DJM-400 looks pretty good. though it doesn't have the headphone pan for some reason, just like the DJM-500.
you might want to check out the Ecler Nuo3 and Allen & Heath Xone32 as well as Rane 2-channel mixers, all of them as good if not better than the Vestax, imo.
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that's where we differ - I believe the live element is about the immediacy of the experience, the magic of absorbing and returning energy, something that has to be experienced in the moment and is lost when it isn't. I see the artist/DJ as much as a magician as an entertainer.. especially with the music as powerful and mental as psychedelic trance. Probably somewhat different with more dance-oriented styles like house.
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I first started preparing sets in great detail after 6-8 years of DJing - So, to me it has in no way got any connection with being "newbie" or "beginner" - I would rather say it has something to do with being evolved and pushing the boundaries of Djing (trying to reach perfection).
For me, not being prepared, is just being lazy. (Which is also the impression I get from the rest of my friends who are into this hobby).
I realize though, there is no persuading you to see why this way of doing things works (and works very well) - You are caught up with the DJs person and craft as such, putting focus on that instead of the music like I do.
mmmkay.. i don't care about the music, then, I don't spend 30-40 hours a week listening and previewing music. I've been a DJ for 9 years, and I've prepped sets many times in the past and they worked great, but I've always felt like I was somehow cheating, not really flowing in the immediacy of the moment.
I think that playing live is a LOT harder than playing prepped sets, especially if you don't settle for playing crap. You actually have to know all of your music really well - and how to respond, how to be in the moment. It's harder than knowing exactly the 20 tracks you're going to play, knowing exactly what BPM to set them, exactly when to start the next mix, when to switch the basslines and mids, when to cut over, etc etc. You can't really fuck up too much this way, not as much as you can when you're doing it on the fly - but you can't really get to the same energy level either, it's a risk that I think is worth taking.
maybe if you play only once in a while, at certain parties, where you know exact time slots, who else is playing and how, and when - maybe prepared sets can work well. I happen to play out a lot - almost every weekend, sometimes twice in a weekend - at all kinds of events from small to midsize to very big, indoor and house parties, clubs, outdoor parties, for very different audiences all the time, from dedicated dark psy heads to fluffy ravers to older psychedelic explorers - and I very rarely know what the party will be like until I am actually there. There is no way you can prep sets for this, and I am very glad - I wouldn't trade it for the world.
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i think playing prepared sets goes against the whole idea of DJing as a conduit for energy to the dancefloor. plus it's extremely boring, imo.
maybe a good way for beginner DJs who don't have confidence in themselves yet, and for DJs who like to jump around on stage and act all cool. but honestly I would rather hear a truly LIVE dj performance with some imperfections than a stale pre-made set that's perfect.
of course you have to know what you're doing, which only comes with practice and experience. the more you play, the better you get..
you can learn to do everything live that you can do at home, find your inspiration, go with the flow..
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actually, anything by Penta. his music is great at sunrise!
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Some nice morning stuff on resonantearth.com
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I think he means 'psy-dub' which is a very narrow sub-genre. There are some good albums in the genre, like Ott and Kukan-dub-lagan, but lately it hasn't been especially exciting. I personally find 'proper' english dub from the 90s to be much more interesting, soulful, and psychedelic.
Check out v/a Talisman for a good intro into the more 'dubby' side of 'psy'.
And <that other forum> has a looooong thread on Dub, with lots of good suggestions.
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I don't believe in cheap headphones anymore. When i just started DJing, i got me a pair of $50 Audio-Technica headphones. They sounded great in the bedroom and even at small house parties and bar gigs. Then I scored a gig at a real club.. I put on the headphones and all of a sudden realized that I couldn't HEAR the music - the huge monitors were overpowering my headphones, and if I turned down the monitors, the club system was still drowning them out. I couldn't mix at all - had to run and borrow the other DJ's HD-25s. Now, most headphones in the lower price-range are not powerful enough for a club or any big rig, simple as that. That's why DJs use headphones that can be turned up really loud, and don't distort at high volume.
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a good LIVE on-the-fly set - DJ or PA is always better than anything pre-made in the bedroom. it's unfortunate that there are so few people who can do it properly.
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finally discovering the Beatles, eh? it's nice to hear other music, not just psytrance all the time from 14 years old..
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Twilight Circus Dub Sound System.
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Good ways to count BPM?
in General Psytrance
Posted
there's some idm with predictable rhythms, though also enough stuff with off-beat/double-up beats etc.. not just autechre anymore. check out Apparat for example. just not their latest with [gasp] lyrics..