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For the third time already Well, my point was that you can "prove" basically anything by finding articles and surveys published by serious organisations and giving quotes out of context. I don't actually believe that all vegetarians are psychos, calm down If we talk about vegetarian diets seriously, well, human species is omnivorous by nature. Actually the above example with vitamin A supports exactly this, human metabolism can adapt and use inferior vitamin sources for a short time, but it's an emergency solution, it was "invented" by evolution to survive the periods when our ancestors weren't lucky enough to catch some animals. I can believe that now it's possible to compensate for permanent lack of meat by various food additives. But I'm not so sure that anyone in any place in the world has access to these and has enough knowledge and education to plan good vegetarian diets. So it's not like "if you want to be as good and moral as me just stop buying meat and milk, it's that easy". It's not that easy.

As fas as scientific surveys go This survey says that people with mental issues are more likely to become vegetarians. But another survey says that Look, people, vegans are psychos! They became vegans because they are psychos and being vegans makes things even worse for them.That's science, bro! Well, I just googled some articles for fun, picked some conclusions out of context and put them toghether. Just like you did, because in fact means lots of supplements which people outside of the first world just can't afford, and not appropriately planned ones mean lot of health risks, especially for children. In case of developing countires health organisations recommend because which ends up in

No. I just want to say that in some cases the gap between "there are some scientific evidences in favour of this" and "this is an established and undeniable fact" may be huge. E.g. I think the scientific evidences of that HIV causes AIDS or that smoking contributes to cancer are strong enough, but the scientific basis of that veganism (I mean veganism alone, not "healthy lifestyle" including veganism among other things) would actually provide benefits to any person in any age and any health condition is not really that strong. Not to mention that you look obviovulsy biased so I guess that among all scientific evidences you are choosing only those which support your decision. And yes, I do like meat

The problem with these studies is that they can prove basically everything the authors want to prove. You can manipulate things on different levels, the inclusion criteria, the statistical data, the interpretation of the results, whatever. By manipulation, I don't actually mean intentional distrotion of the study design and results, but rather subconscious bias of the investigators in favour of their ideas. I can readily believe that an avreage vegan may have equally good or better health than an average meat eater. As far vegainsm is usually associated with healthy lifestyle in general, a vegan is expected to do more excercises, drink less alcohol, if any, eat less sugar if any etc. What exactly provides the health benefits they are talking about, and how do we determine the effect of veganism alone? Aslo I think it is generally applciable to the 1st world countires mostly, where most people can buy high quality food of any kind. But the bottomline is: why would anyone care what other people are eating?

There are some more general issues I would like to touch upon. First of all, I don't like any kind of -ism. It puts you into a group with clearly defined traits and most of the time ppl on that group think they are better than the rest or they know the "truth". That can lead only to tensions. I like these kind of discussion not to prove to ppl that I am right, but to find out where I am wrong, or where my theories/ideas are lacking. In that way I can really benefit. Most of the vegetarians/vegans use in their reasoning the cruelty to animals, the way they are treated/grown and the "poisonous" substances they are fed etc etc. Yes, that is true, no question about it, not even a dedicated meat eater could deny that. But isn't that a different issue? I think that is a problem of an over-consuming generation. I think balance should be the keyword here. We, as a species, whether you like it or not, are omnivores. So a balanced diet is better that any other type. Or are you under the illusion that the vegetables you eat are not part of the over consumption problem? Do you think that the vegetables are grown under natural conditions? That they are free of "nasty" things? Do you, we, have any idea the damage we cause to the soil to grow all the vegetables we need? We have to stop over consuming. We need to find a way to coexist, or at least to be able to return back to earth "more" that what we use. That is our next evolution step. The "natural" way to go is to have a balanced diet, that includes everything we need to eat and no supplements. Being a vegan and having to take supplements? Doesn't sound right to me. BTW, why do I personally have to kill the animals I eat? Do all vegetarians grow their own vegetables? I have more but I forgot Maybe later